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 CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC

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red rick



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PostSubject: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 2nd 2016, 6:52 pm

I am looking for a new BP rifle . The top 3 on my list are the Optima SS Thumbhole 14" LOP and the TC Triumph 14" LOP ant the TC Bone Collector 13.5 LOP . One of the main reasons I have them at the top of my list is the LOP . When I wear heavy clothing 14" is about the max LOP I can shoulder without thinking about it , so the Acura is out of the running and I don't really like the rubber gripping of the BC or Acura . I like the feel of smooth plastic better .
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OSR



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 2nd 2016, 10:12 pm

I know the rifle I'm suggesting isn't on your list, but the TC Omega with a LOP of 14", IMHO is probably one of the best in-line muzzleloaders made by TC.

If you look around you can get a used one in great to decent shape, at a good price.
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Smokin' Joe
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 12:00 pm

It's good to get various opinions on the muzzleloaders your thinking about buying.  However, everyone has different needs and wants.  What's comfortable to one shooter may not be comfortable to you.  Try to shoulder your favorites to get a good comparison.  As far as LOP, you do not shoot very many times in a hunting situation and some seasons not at all.  I wouldn't let a 1/2" LOP difference determine a rifle choice.

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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 2:41 pm

Of the ones you've listed, I'd go with the Optima. The thumbhole stock lends itself nicely to using a scope. The breech plug will come out everytime with your fingers. TC's customer service is almost non existent & there's always talk about S&W just doing away with the entire muzzleloader line.

The Optima is a great shooter & very accurate. I would recommend a Western Powders BH209 breech plug, 110gr of BH209, & a Barnes TEZ 250 or Hornady 250gr Monoflex in a Harvester EZ Load sabot.
I would suggest buying it from Carlos at ed's Gun Shop 910-692-7936. You can even call & talk to him about your choices he will NEVER lead you in the wrong direction.

As for the rubber, I went to that on my APEX & fell in love with it. If you hunt in cold, wet, or snowy weather the bare plastic can become slippery, but that's just personal preference.

Good luck with your choice.

Greg

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LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 2:58 pm

red rick, I'm with GregK on the CVA.  I've had great customer service with CVA in the past.  
BTW...I own a CVA APEX and the grip is fantastic hunting with in all weather.
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red rick



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 6:01 pm

Thanks Greg & Marty I will give Carlos a call . I have a V1 Acura now , but it does not fit me well and I get hang fires with BH 209 , even with a modified breech plug from Carlos , shimmed firing pin with no blowback and cleaning it every 3rd shoot . I use my gun for hunting so the hang fires are a no go and I would like to use BH 209 because it is so easy to load . I get good results with 777 or White Hots . I just don't like the hard loading . I have killed a very nice buck while using the White Hots and Hornady 250 gr. SST . He is on the wall now , I would of hated a hang fire then .
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GoexBlackhorn

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 6:19 pm

@red rick wrote:
Thanks Greg & Marty I will give Carlos a call . I have a V1 Acura now , but it does not fit me well and I get hang fires with BH 209 , even with a modified breech plug from Carlos , shimmed firing pin with no blowback and cleaning it every 3rd shoot . I use my gun for hunting so the hang fires are a no go and I would like to use BH 209 because it is so easy to load . I get good results with 777 or White Hots . I just don't like the hard loading . I have killed a very nice buck while using the White Hots and Hornady 250 gr. SST . He is on the wall now , I would of hated a hang fire then .


In trying to clear the air regarding your hangfires. Just making sure of your procedures, prior to firing. I'm assuming both ends of the breechplug are clear and within specs.
-1) Make sure your breechplug is bone dry. I never store my ML with my breechplug inserted.
-2) Is your bore bone dry? ----- 2a) Are you using the hottest 209 primer? (Federal 209A)
-3) Did you fire at least two 209 primers?
-4) Are you taking the entire powder jug to the range and not just the amount you need that day? You want to avoid moisture contamination.
-5) Action open and no 209 primer present when loading powder to avoid air bubble?
-6) Did you tap the barrel evenly, so powder rests equally across, before loading bullet?
-7) BH209 likes a firm / pressure-seating bullet.
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red rick



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 3rd 2016, 7:05 pm

I did all of those things except I only fire one primmer before loading and I was using CCI 209 magnum primers . I had pre measured the charges that I was using the night before in Lane tubes . Started with 85 , 90 , 95 and 100 grains . The best load would of been with 90 gr. but that was the one of the 2  hang fires I had on the 3rd shot and it dropped way low . I followed up with a 4th shoot and not counting the low hang fire I got a .771 group @ 100 yds. . My groups : 85 gr. 1.64 , 95 gr. 2.25 , 100 gr. 1.90 .

I did not compress it hard , once I felt it hit I stopped pushing .

I am a hunter so I really don't care about small group sizes , but I would like it to go bang every time and give me at least a 2.5" group @ 100 yds. . I have never had 100 yd. shot where I hunt , most in bow range .

I am ok using 777 or White Hots , I am mainly looking for a gun that fits me better and able to reliably shoot BH209 is a plus . Price is not a factor , but would like the best gun that fits me for under $700 dollars .

I know you can't recommend a gun that fits me , but of the 3 I picked , not to start a war , I hate those threads when they start , which is the better gun . I really like the thumbhole stock , but are TC's more reliable with BH209 ?
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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Optima or TC Triumph BC   July 4th 2016, 1:51 pm

It's been mentioned prior but I didn't see an answer so if I missed it forgive me. If you're cleaning every third using BH209 that may cause your hangfires. If you use a solvent & don't get it 100% dry & clean the oil can affect ignition.

Always compress BH209. It relies on that for proper ignition. That in itself may be enough to cause your problem. I seat my bullet & then give my rod 2 good wacks to compress the powder properly.


As for the plug with the vent liner, ask Carlos about that when you call him. I can't give you any advice on that particular plug. I always used the Western Powders plugs when I shot those guns & BH209 & never had any issue, but until now I've never heard of any issue with the plug you're using either.

To my knowledge the TC never had any BH209 issues unless the flash channel isn't kept clean....every ten shots or so.

Greg

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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