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 GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE

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conner
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PostSubject: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 9th 2016, 12:50 pm

GRRW.CA - FIRST J & S HAWKEN RIFLE HAS BEEN DELIVERED

Green River Rifle Works Collector Association just completed Hawken Ser. No. #002 by Carl Walker.
It is a BIG BORE rifle (.62 cal.).

One comment was "nice rifle, never seen anyone use a down spout for a barrel", another was "will the new owner use a wheel barrow to pack around a 14 lb. 4 oz. gun?".

The same gentleman has a Jim Bridger Hawken being built at this time (hot in Roosevelt UT so Carl hides out in the basement working on guns). The Tom Watson gun is next in line, that should be a fun project being assembled from an original GRRW kit from 1970. The best part its being built by the gunsmith that sent the kit out 36 years ago (how neat is that folks). Kentucky Colonial will be excited to know he's next in line.














NOTE: the correct "hump" at the tang like James Lakenan partner to the Hawkin's was famous for in the early years. A request made by the gentleman Carl Walker built this gun for wanting an early style full-stock. A neat touch that most are not aware of in the early production of the Hawken rifle.

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Last edited by conner on August 16th 2016, 4:56 pm; edited 4 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 9th 2016, 1:08 pm

Beautiful. I'm so jealous.

Does it really weigh 14lbs? Cripes!

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 9th 2016, 1:44 pm

This has the flintlock, percussion conversion setup (first one they have built in 40 years).

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 9th 2016, 2:00 pm

I asked if it weighs 14lbs? What does a .54 cal weigh?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 9th 2016, 2:14 pm

I have wanted one since I saw Bobby Archibald's at Gary Hertzogs 37 years ago!...really nice!

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 10th 2016, 10:59 am

I am very much looking forward to this. 

I love that this is going on and love seeing the new rifles.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 10th 2016, 12:50 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I just spoke to Carl Walker himself. 

Boy, that was fun. 
 
If anyone knows anyone with a GRRW rifle marked "Mormon Made?" 
Carl made this for another GRRW employee named Lloyd Helms many years 
ago. Lloyd calls it the 'Mormon Maiden' and he lost it some years back, but 
is looking for it. 'Mormon Made' is on the muzzle.

Carl made a rifle for Robert Redford and Mr. Redford wanted it all banged up. 
Carl does not know why. So, they put it up on a counter and every time someone 
would pass it, they would gouge it with a knife, ding it with a hammer, etc. 
When they finally sent it off to Mr. Redford, it was so dinged up it looked awful. 
Mr. Redford had Carl put the serial number on the bottom of the barrel where it 
would be hidden from casual inspection. Carl thinks he may have been playing with 
some friends and making them believe it was an old original piece for laughs. 

Carl also asked me for a favor. He asked that when he finished the rifle he was 
doing for me if I would never load it by setting the butt plate on my foot. "Stick it 
in the dirt where it belongs." He says he sees so many people doing contortions and 
sticking odd body parts out and off balancing themselves trying to load those things on 
their foot. "Make it look like it was used right."

(Gulps.) I will try. It goes against my grain to rough up a rifle like that, but I will no longer 
do yoga to load a rifle. I will 'Stick it in the dirt' as God and Carl Walker intended.
 lol!

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 10th 2016, 2:19 pm

In your case it will be sticking it in the swamp.

A Hawken in Florida is just wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   August 14th 2016, 9:46 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Sorry for the double post, but I just spoke to Carl Walker himself. 

Boy, that was fun. 
 
If anyone knows anyone with a GRRW rifle marked "Mormon Made?" 
Carl made this for another GRRW employee named Lloyd Helms many years 
ago. Lloyd calls it the 'Mormon Maiden' and he lost it some years back, but 
is looking for it. 'Mormon Made' is on the muzzle.

I have seen this gun several times for sale, but that was several years ago.

Carl made a rifle for Robert Redford and Mr. Redford wanted it all banged up. 
Carl does not know why. So, they put it up on a counter and every time someone 
would pass it, they would gouge it with a knife, ding it with a hammer, etc. 
When they finally sent it off to Mr. Redford, it was so dinged up it looked awful. 

This was at Sundance UT right after GRRW built the gun, where is it now ???

Carl also asked me for a favor. He asked that when he finished the rifle he was 
doing for me if I would never load it by setting the butt plate on my foot. "Stick it 
in the dirt where it belongs." He says he sees so many people doing contortions and sticking odd body parts out and off balancing themselves trying to load those things on their foot. "Make it look like it was used right."

He tells all of us that same line ....

 lol!

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   February 27th 2017, 4:51 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Carl also asked me for a favor. He asked that when he finished the rifle he was 
doing for me if I would never load it by setting the butt plate on my foot. "Stick it 
in the dirt where it belongs." He says he sees so many people doing contortions and 
sticking odd body parts out and off balancing themselves trying to load those things on 
their foot. "Make it look like it was used right."

(Gulps.) I will try. It goes against my grain to rough up a rifle like that, but I will no longer 
do yoga to load a rifle. I will 'Stick it in the dirt' as God and Carl Walker intended.
 lol!

Your kit is on the bench, this one has a tapered barrel (only a few I've seen have this feature) otherwise pretty straight forward.  Carl is making me a list of what and where each part came from for an article on this piece. Example is the percussion lock from Cherry Corners and so.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 10:53 am

Brilliant. Just brilliant. Cherry Corners is a story in itself.

And, 'Traveler' is in motion again!

I wrote to Carl and asked him to take pics during the process of the build.

I pointed out that many get the end product pics with nothing before, but 
that the process itself is of interest and these opportunities were likely to be 
fewer and fewer. 

He is not a shutter-bug, but he agreed that the idea had value. He said 
he would try to photograph it in the building stages. (excited!) IF he can manage it. 
(I hope he can. - He and the GRRW/GRRW CA rifles are walking talking history.) And, 
that basement of his is of interest, too! 

We shall see, eh?

Ignorant question: Swamped, I know... Tapered? And a GRRW? I did not know this was 
possible. I did not observe a big difference in the barrel before shipping. Can you explain 
a little more?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 11:32 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Brilliant. Just brilliant. Cherry Corners is a story in itself.

'CHERRY CORNER'S' LOCKS WERE USED UNTIL GRRW USED UP EVERYTHING THEY HAD AVAILABLE. THEN GRRW CHANGED TO 'RON LONG LOCKS' WITH A FEW 'KERN'S LOCKS' ALONG WITH OTHERS (ALL ABOUT WHAT WAS AVAILABLE).

I wrote to Carl and asked him to take pics during the process of the build.

THIS CAN BE QUESTIONABLE WITH THESE GUYS, THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR ATTENTION ON THE BUILD NOT TAKING PICTURES. PERSONALLY I WANT THEM TO DO THE BEST THEY CAN ON THE BUILD, PICTURES ARE SECOND.

(I hope he can. - He and the GRRW/GRRW CA rifles are walking talking history.) And, that basement of his is of interest, too! 

TO THESE GUYS THE HISTORY MEANS LITTLE, ITS ALL ABOUT BUILDING A QUALITY MUZZLE-LOADER.

Ignorant question: Swamped, I know... Tapered? And a GRRW? I did not know this was possible. I did not observe a big difference in the barrel before shipping. Can you explain 
a little more?

YOUR BARREL IS TAPERED FROM THE BREECH TO THE MUZZLE BY AN 1/8 INCH - NOT SWAMPED. THIS BECAME POPULAR WITH SAVING WEIGHT IN THOSE DAYS. 6-8 OZ DOESN'T SOUND LIKE MUCH UNTIL YOU CARRY THAT RIFLE ALL DAY.

DIFFERENT SUPPLIERS SENT GRRW WHATEVER THEY HAD (SOME WERE LIKE YOURS). FINALLY DOC WHITE PURCHASED A BARREL MAKING MACHINE FROM BILL LARGE AND GRRW STARTED MAKING THEIR OWN BARRELS. THE DEMAND WAS SO GREAT GRRW RAN SEVERAL OF THE BARREL FIRMS OUT OF STOCK. SEEMS GRRW CAUGHT EVERYONE (SUPPLIERS) BY SURPRISE WITH THEIR DEMAND FOR PARTS USING UP THEIR INVENTORIES AT A FAST PACE.


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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 11:43 am

KC (John) hope the above reply was clear, I also told Carl I need pictures for an article about your build and the kit's history. 

I have everything you sent me for pictures,Tom Watson furnished additional information from what he could remember. Build pictures and finished pictures will add to the story. 

I will post the story with pictures on the 'Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association' website and send the article to 'Green River Gazette' newsletter for publishing and then send the article (various versions) to a few editors I know with period National Magazines that I have written for over the years. 

Any other attention we can work on, this will add value to your rifle and give additional attention to GRRW-CA.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 12:09 pm

Oh, I trust that. I know that. And, thanks. 

Whatever Carl and his friends wish to offer, or not? I am OK with. 
I totally get it and am on board. I believe in their personal value. 
God love 'em.  I do.

Your answer WAS clear and matched what I suspected. Tapered vs 
swamped was the main interest. Now I know.

As I am convinced of value? I have not much worried about others 
views. I am a bit of an iconoclast. Most of us here are. I just shot a 1 
of 3000 original rifle on a hunt because that is what it was designed to do. 
I know some will lower the 'value' because of this. F them. scratch


Whee! I act as I believe. Doing is the value. History is the value. Story is the 
value. Huge value is here and I don't care if others follow. But, I am pretty 
good at predicting value.

So, I will 'stick it in the dirt' with no qualms... beyond my own. Shocked

But, as I believe this rifle has a history worth saving? And, others have already believed? 
(Chuckle) I am actively on board and unworried.

Another forum mate in another thread accurately said that my Model 71 Winchester made by Browning .348 Win. lever action with beautiful engraving was a rifle that I would never sell. This was accurate. Line up for my estate sale, boys. No one else will own this rifle. 'Traveler' is mine.

Besides, this is a boyhood dream... me and my friends drooled over these GRRW rifles in a basement 
in the late 70's. I went hunting with two of three of those guys this year and they are all aware of this rifle and applaud the effort. 

I am having so much fun. No worries.

PS. For the record, I have never bought a historical/rifle piece that I have not been able to sell for a profit. I am SO not worried about this one. I actually believe my estate will be very happy with me. Records always help your heirs.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 2:14 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Besides, this is a boyhood dream... me and my friends drooled over these GRRW rifles in a basement in the late 70's. I went hunting with two of three of those guys this year and they are all aware of this rifle and applaud the effort. 

I was one of three of the first dealers to handle GRRW in Northern Colorado back in the early 70's. I never paid much attention to the guns themselves, they had a fair profit margin, easy to sell, swap or trade for and GRRW was easy to work with. The shop manager lived about 20 miles from me and would bring home what ever they had ready for us on the weekend. Greg had a long drive on Sundays to go back to work then make that drive home on Friday night (finally moving to Roosevelt UT after a year or two).  Fun memories.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 5:05 pm

Conner...was it Corn and who else in those days? .....or was John (Trapper's Rendezvous) later? By the way. if I ever have another rifle built, it will be a .62 cal.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW.CA - 1st J & S HAWKEN RIFLE   March 1st 2017, 5:27 pm

@lighthorseman wrote:
Conner...was it Corn and who else in those days? .....or was John (Trapper's Rendezvous) later? By the way. if I ever have another rifle built, it will be a .62 cal.

Fort Collins area:
Cache La Poudre Rifleworks
Mountain Armory
Loveland area:
Buckhorn Rendezvous
Denver Metro:
Trappers Rendezvous (Korn)
Old West Arms
Colo.Springs:
The Mountain Man Shop

There were a few blanket traders with one or two guns, nothing like the inventories of Trappers, Old West or The Mountain Man shops.

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