Muzzleloading Forum
 
HomeGalleryFAQSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
cooter64

avatar

Number of posts : 30
Age : 52
Location : michigan
Registration date : 2016-08-31

PostSubject: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 10:27 am

Hi all,
I started using BH209 this year, I really love the stuff.  However, I could never really get truly repeatable results by measuring by volume.
I have several different powder measures that I use and they are very close to each other when checked.  I do reload for my cf rifles and have a RCBS Chargemaster scale.  I like weighing my charges for consistency and for me it is easier to pump out alot charge tubes.

According to Western Powders, to weigh charges use a .7 factor to convert from volume.  100 grv = 70 grw.

My process was to measure, by volume, 20 charges for 90grv, 100grv, 110grv & 120grv, then weigh them on my Chargemaster.
I tabulated the results, disregarded the highest and lowest values and then averaged the results.  My data indicated weighed charges 
7 grains heavier than the BH209 data.  Has anyone else experienced the same results?

What is interesting is when I extrapolate the data below for 10 grains by volume vs. by weight , it does match the data from Blackhorn for a value of 7 grains by weight to 10 grain by volume.  It is just a little confusing as to why all the values are off by approximately +7 grains (by weight).  Is this due to the fact that there
is no industry standard for volume measures?  The 3 measures i have are very close to each other, and I tried to be consistent in the method I used ensure all things would be equal.  I basically would fiil the measure and tap it 4 times until full, then move the cap to level it off, then weigh the charge.

I did talk to Western Powders, they basically said that all black powder is measured by volume and they appreciated my approach, but as long as what ever measure I used, 120 grv was to be considered max regardless to what it would weigh.


My Data
BH 90 grv                        BH 100 grv                      BH 110 grv                      BH 120 grv
63 (grw)    weighed       70 (grw)    weighed        77 (grw)    weighed        84 (grw)    weighed                                   
69.3             69.3              76.9             76.9              84.5             84.5              90.8             90.8                                     
70.9             70.9              77.2             77.2              85.4             85.4              91.6             91.6                                     
69.4             69.4              76.9             76.9              85.7             85.7              91.3             91.3                                     
69.9             69.9              78.5             78.2              84.4             84.4              64.2             91.9                                     
71.1             68.4              78.2             77.1              84.8             84.8              91.9             92                                         
67.9             69.4              77.1             76.6              84.2             84.2              92                 91.1                                     
68.4             70.2              76.6             76.9              86                 85.2              91.1             91.7                                     
69.4             70.1              76.9             77.7              85.2             85.8              91.7             91.7                                     
70.2             69.1              77.7             78                 85.8             84.9              91.7             90.4                                     
70.1             69.6              76.3             77.6              84.9             84.4              90.4             92.4                                     
69.1             71.1              78                 77                 84.4             85                  92.4             92.2                                     
69.6             68.9              77.6             77.9              85                 85.4              92.2             89.5                                     
71.1             69.8              77                 77.7              85.4             84.3                                  91.2                                     
68.9             70.4              77.9             77.3              84.3             85.7              91.2             90.6                                     
69.8             68.9              77.7             76.4              85.7             85                  94.1             91.7                                     
70.4             69.9              77.3             76.7              85                 84.6              90.6             92.4                                    
68.9             70.3              76.4             78.4              83.9             85.4              91.7             91.4                                     
69.9             69.3              76.7             77.1              84.6             85.1              92.4             92.1                                    
70.3             69.7              78.4             77.3              85.4             85.0              91.4             91.4                                     
69.3                                   77.1                                   85.1                                   92.1                                                          
69.7             Average     77.3             Average     85.0             Average     90.3             Average                            
71.1             High             78.5             High             86                 High             94.1             High                                    
67.9             Low              76.3             Low              83.9             Low              64.2             Low                                     
 70.0 grw                         77.0 grw                         84.0 grw                         91.0 grw        CORRECTED VALUES
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                                                                                   

90 grv                               100 grv                             110 grv                             120 grv                            
                       
70.0 grw                          77.0 grw                          85.0 grw                          91.0 grw                                                 
                       7.0                                     8.0                                   6.0                                    7.0   Average per 10 grv
                                                                                                                                                                                                   
High and low values discarded                                                                                     
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bear Claw
Site
Site
avatar

Male Number of posts : 9511
Age : 74
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 11:01 am

I've never been concerned what my loads actually weighed. My concern was my volume measured loads were close to the same to each other. That makes accuracy.

I go up and down the volume measure until I find the load that my gun likes. Once that is found then it's my job to repeat how I measure it out and make it exactly the same every time. What it actually measures or weighs doesn't mean a thing to me. Only that I can repeat it.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
patocazador
Site
Site
avatar

Number of posts : 4968
Age : 74
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 2:38 pm

I always weigh my loads and put them in Lane's tubes. I do this with both BH209 and black powder. I don't use Pyrodex or 777. Volume measurements can vary as you found out. I learned in Quantitative Analysis how to weigh compounds accurately.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Bear Claw
Site
Site
avatar

Male Number of posts : 9511
Age : 74
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 4:10 pm

Unless you're shooting competitive target shooting it won't make a lick of difference. Then again it won't hurt anything either if you already have a scale. I wouldn't buy a scale to just weigh BP loads for hunting.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cooter64

avatar

Number of posts : 30
Age : 52
Location : michigan
Registration date : 2016-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 6:19 pm

I already had mine for reloading
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Marty
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 3190
Age : 61
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 2nd 2016, 9:33 pm

When it comes to BH209, I've found that the 120 grain volume increment on my particular brass powder measuring tubeon average, produces a factor of 0.71 (85.2 grains by weight) vs. 0.70 (84.0 grains by weight)...to me an insignificant difference of only 1.2 grains by weight.  By "on average" I'm referring to the particular way I level-off and tap the brass measuring tube.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
2701jim



Number of posts : 2
Age : 64
Location : dob 7/19/53
Registration date : 2014-02-21

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   October 5th 2016, 10:00 pm

The most accurate measuring tube I have found is the clear see through TC Tube. Even the Blackhorn factory tubes are off by about 10gr when weighed.


Last edited by 2701jim on October 5th 2016, 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Smokin' Joe
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1577
Age : 67
Location : Elk River, MN
Registration date : 2011-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 15th 2017, 3:50 pm

I realize this is an old thread but I was weighing up some BH209 today in preparation for a range trip next week,  playing with my Accura MR and T/C Encore.  I always weigh the BH209 and use Lane's Tubes but happen to see a few Western powder tubes. I decided to see how far off the Western Tubes read.  My load for the test was 84.1 grains weighed on my scale.  The Western tube should have read 120 grains but noticed a "huge" difference.  Cooter 64 was right!

 

_________________
Joe

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”   Will Rogers

Semper Fi……..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Marty
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 3190
Age : 61
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 15th 2017, 4:49 pm

That's why the safest way to measure your BP charge is ALWAYS by volume with a standardized  BP measuring tube.  I never rely solely on a charge prepared by weighing only.   SOP... I will always check my scale FIRST against a volume measurement before I prepare a batch of pre-measured storage tubes for the range.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cooter64

avatar

Number of posts : 30
Age : 52
Location : michigan
Registration date : 2016-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 15th 2017, 8:13 pm

One thing I did notice.  After I weighed my charges and put them in the tubes, if i gave them a good shake the would read closer to the graduated volumes on the tube.  Regardless, I have tried several measures and tried to be as consistent as possible when leveling, the tube never would read as the measure.  For me, weighing the charges is working just fine, tight groups, 1 elk, 2 whitetails, I can't complain.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Smokin' Joe
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1577
Age : 67
Location : Elk River, MN
Registration date : 2011-11-23

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 15th 2017, 9:12 pm

I always weigh  BH209 but I use a powder measure for black powder.

_________________
Joe

“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.”   Will Rogers

Semper Fi……..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cooter64

avatar

Number of posts : 30
Age : 52
Location : michigan
Registration date : 2016-08-31

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 16th 2017, 7:22 am

@Marty wrote:
@cooter64 wrote:
One thing I did notice.  After I weighed my charges and put them in the tubes, if i gave them a good shake the would read closer to the graduated volumes on the tube.  Regardless, I have tried several measures and tried to be as consistent as possible when leveling, the tube never would read as the measure.  For me, weighing the charges is working just fine, tight groups, 1 elk, 2 whitetails, I can't complain.
Here's my "standardized" BP measuring tube which produces consistent volume measures.

Can't see pic?


Last edited by Marty on July 16th 2017, 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added pic for cooter64)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 839
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 16th 2017, 7:28 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
I've never been concerned what my loads actually weighed. My concern was my volume measured loads were close to the same to each other. That makes accuracy.

This is as good as it gets from Pete. With over 60 years of shooting black powder using and also using any of the current brands. 

Green River Rifle Works Powder Company was playing around testing powder with alum. added, talk about some hot stuff. I got to shoot a few rounds of it at their plant in Roovevelt UT. You could really feel the difference (like comparing a modern cartridge rifle to a muzzleloader in smiliar calibers), recoil was increased with the alum powder added as well as hitting power. 

That's all in the past its about accuracy then and now, that what puts meat on the table.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 839
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   July 16th 2017, 3:45 pm

Good pictures Smokin' Joe.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data   

Back to top Go down
 
Blackhorn 209 Load Data vs My Data
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Frontier Muzzleloading :: Muzzleloading Topic :: Powder Room-
Jump to: