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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 9th 2016, 3:05 pm

While the epoxy was drying, I decided to get dressed up, take my dog for a walk and snap some pictures of my new shirt and hat. I REALLY like this hat a lot. Even though its 60* its not overkill, especially if you pull it up on top of your ears to cool down a bit. The new shirt is muslin and tea dyed. Thicker material but it feels great. Waiting on my pants to come in now. They are white, so I may look into dying them a brownish color or possibly even a green.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 9th 2016, 3:44 pm

That's a better looking shirt than the last one you showed. It should be worn outside , not tucked in. Show a picture that way.

Got a link for that shirt?


What's in that little bag around your neck?

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 9th 2016, 4:05 pm

They can be worn both ways.

That's my ball bag. I only carry a few balls in there during pictures/hunting season. To many balls, to much weight on my neck.

Under the options its listed as Muslin - Tea Dye
http://oneblanket.com/Mountain-Man-Work-Shirt-10003.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 10th 2016, 8:36 am

Awesome lid FG.   :rtup
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 10th 2016, 2:41 pm

Jon

as you improve your outfit, a careful examination of Alfred Jacob Miller, as well as a few others, will give you the correct impression. In this case a view of a "small shirt" being worn under a buckskin jacket/coat. Sometimes you have to look hard! t up
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 10th 2016, 5:15 pm

:rtup

Are those ribs cooking by the fire side or something to reflect the heat back?
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 10th 2016, 7:33 pm

Ribs......this would be part of his 1837 paintings...or later paintings from sketches he made during his trip with Sir Drummond Stewart in'37. He was a very prolific painter doing dozens while on the trip. Best source for Western Fur trade dress, weapons and equipment. Catlin was also during this period 1834- as was Karl Bodmer in 1832.......so about the peak of the fur trade.....just Google those names and you'll see a lot of mountain men and Indians!

Not typical of what you see at rendezvous!

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 7:21 am

I prefer to go by real pictures instead of the imagination of a painter. No matter how accurate the painters reputation appears to be. How can that be proved?

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 9:31 am

Ummmm those three were there:|
can you give an example of a real picture?

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Last edited by lighthorseman on November 11th 2016, 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 10:09 am

When i have time. I'm trying to get this blasted flintlock to be more reliable.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 10:23 am

Take your time..........hopefully you have a photograph!

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 10:33 am

Jon


you might want to check out this link in regards to clothing....based on original eye witnesses.


http://www.mman.us/clothing.htm



"Trousers of the 1820’s and 1830’s were high-waisted, and full in the hips and seat. There were three basic kinds of legs: the stove pipe cut, tapered cut to a small ankle, or cut to fit closely to the leg.  Belts were not used to secure trousers at this time, but rather suspenders, ties or cinches.  Alfred Jacob Miller shows trouser styles which include both the fall-front and fly type closure.  Mountain men depicted by Miller mostly wear buckskin trousers or pants, although a few are clearly wearing pants made of fabric, mostly blue in color."

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 10:52 am

FWIT, the book of buckskinning part 3 has a ton of pictures with American mountain men doing a 3000 mile ride across the US into canada. 3 of the 4 in the picture have heir drop sleeve shirts tucked.

Watching jeremiah johnson last night as well, when he is trading with the crow and smoking the peace pipe, his torn drop sleeve is also tucked in.

It pretty common that you can wear it either way. I doubt the mountain men said, hey! its supposed to be worn on the outside, not tucked in! All the while, wading streams up to their nads lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 10:59 am

I forgot another artist who was later in the western fur trade. Rudolph Friederich Kurz was a noted Swiss artist who spent the years from 1846 to 1852 at the western trading posts of the great fur companies on the Mississippi and the upper Missouri Rivers.

https://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/images/kurz/

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 11:04 am

horseman, let me ask you. I often see shorter overall length drop sleeve shirts at rendezvous. They are not those long shirts that goes halfway down to your thigh. Are those even correct for say pre 1840?
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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 11:15 am

Shirts were more commonly long as they were used as "under wear"...i.e. tucked between the legs. Underpants were not as common until later in the century but especially in the frontier where clothing was a premium, especially as "white man's clothing" wore out. Trade shirts were obtained at trading post or rendezvous, but as I said were commonly long for tucking between the legs and used as underwear..........I know what you're thinking, but think about practicality........you can't run down to Walmart and pick up a  new package of "Fruit of the Loom" when the nearest trading post might be several hundred miles south on the southern plains of what would eventually become Colorado. Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 11:28 am

Here's some sketches from Kurtz
https://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/images/kurz/

Keep in mind that most of what comes out of Hollywood as well as "most" modern rendezvous is fantasy....so if your interested in period correctness then you have to go to the original documentation. Those artist I offered were there and painted what they observed. The beauty of the internet is that you can go to it instantly rather than the many visits to library, inter-library loans and museums that we used to have to visit to see period correct clothing, equipment and firearms.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 11:37 am

Jon

here's a photo from a living history event (60 years earlier than you're period) Notice my oldest son's "Young" shirt........common style for several hundred years till about mid-19th century. Doing a Stockbridge Mohican impression, he wears the shirt outside as he wears breech cloth and leggings.........which by the way was not as common among western fur trappers as depicted at some rendezvous.........even though it is my favorite period dress.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 12:03 pm

Why does everybody wear them on the outside at rendezvous? Why do they always show the shirts being worn outside when selling them?

I'm all for tucking in. That's how I wear modern clothes. I'll cut them shorter though. I'm not tucking those long shirts in.

It's hard to find real pictures wearing just the shirt. They always have some sort of coat on that covers up how they wear the shirts. I know i've seen some, but can't find them.

AMM who I assume know how to do it. They do wear tucked too, so I guess either way is ok. One thing about wearing tucked is it shows if the pants are right or wrong. If you wear out and use leggings. Not much of the pants show.






My avatar is my goal, so im always thinking shirt worn out.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 12:42 pm

Most AMM should...but like many fraternities, exceptions are made for various reasons. AMM likes to claim they are the real thing but again not all model primary source information......you find this in Civil War and Colonial fraternities......even what my son's and I portrayed 8 years ago wasn't 100% period correct, but we are continually improving. There are four obvious modern cowboy hats..... "high crowns" that are not shown in most (at least not common) period paintings. Reshaped yes but not the common wide brimmed, low crown common hats of the 1830-1850's. If the modern model is what one is trying to emulate, then there are many great examples. These guys look great! In the end if someone is trying to do a correct period impression, you got to go to primary source resources. All depends on what you want. t up

I would guess that most of the guys in the photo are wearing breech cloths and leggings....which according to period descriptions were not common as western tribes unlike Woodland Indians, were offended to white men wearing Indian clothing.
Not what Hollywood or rendezvous depict.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 1:44 pm

They can take a squaw for a wife and live with them in the winter, but can't wear their clothes?

Kind of picky weren't they?

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 2:10 pm

Well actually white trappers were opposed to looking like an Indian. While Indian brides were a fact, typically those trappers who took Indian brides...white, black or Hispanic who adopted Indian dress were usually adopted into tribes. That's the trouble with history, it tends to follow facts which are easily documented.

Our "metal image" of things tends to cloud reality of what really was. However if historical accuracy isn't important and the fellowship of modern impressionism is the end goal, as I said there are plenty of good examples...such as the ones you offered. As an example there were fewer than a handful of white women in the Rocky Mountain west from 1800-1830's........thus why our ministry went from a portrayal of the Corps of Discovery to F&I colonial era, so that we could go co-ed and more inclusive with female students. A compromise was made for historical accuracy.

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 2:25 pm

This guy got it right. Very Happy



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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 2:35 pm

lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Dressed up in my new stuff!   November 11th 2016, 2:35 pm

Good read...great history lesson for me guys!  While authentic photographs of the earliest of days will confirm a style, it could not possibly be all-inclusive.  I always enjoy classic art which often captures the common among us.  
In the earlier days artists were the journalist of today.
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