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 Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.

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conner
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PostSubject: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   May 30th 2017, 8:12 pm

Many of you know I have been involved in all areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated. Have written a few articles on the subject, did more research than anyone with common sense would have done. Must have been the old hippy knowledge coming out or Mother Earth News articles or having been born on the edge of Valley Forge Park in PA? I have worked with several growers of these seeds (trying to match what our forefathers used - Jefferson & his friends). GURNEY’S of all the big growers were by far the easiest to work with and provided much of the items of interest that could be crossed referenced.

Here's a link built for the more common edibles cultivated in Jefferson's Garden Book along with Payne and Franklin's garden notes. Can't get much further back than these guys, many were items traded when visiting their European counterparts.

See: http://sittingfoxagency.tripod....cross.reference.htm

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   June 1st 2017, 8:56 am

My favorite is black-eyed peas, cornbread, fried backstrap smothered in gravy and potliker!

Beats the whey out of all of the Yankee food because them folks ain't never known how to cook!! affraid 

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   June 1st 2017, 2:52 pm

@Sharpsman wrote:
My favorite is black-eyed peas, cornbread, fried backstrap smothered in gravy and potliker!

Beats the whey out of all of the Yankee food because them folks ain't never known how to cook!! affraid   :suhlute
 
Other than "cookin' some rebels asses", remember that part in your history classes.  Now that's a real eye opener "potlicker.   What a Face    cyclops 

Just kidding don't get your tail feathers up - some southern brother may take a shot   lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   June 1st 2017, 5:10 pm

@conner wrote:
@Sharpsman wrote:
My favorite is black-eyed peas, cornbread, fried backstrap smothered in gravy and potliker!

Beats the whey out of all of the Yankee food because them folks ain't never known how to cook!! affraid   :suhlute
 
Other than "cookin' some rebels asses", remember that part in your history classes.  Now that's a real eye opener "potlicker.   What a Face    cyclops 

Just kidding don't get your tail feathers up - some southern brother may take a shot   lol!

Both sides did a mighty fine job of killing each other!
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conner
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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   June 1st 2017, 5:50 pm

Sad but true.

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   June 6th 2017, 6:26 am

Connor, you are doing good work.  

Growing up in WV we had numerous heirloom varieties of fruit and veggies.   The original beef steak tomatoes stand out.   Farmers orchards often had heirloom apples like Rambo, Pumpkin Sweet and Spies (the locals called it Northern Spy.)   Mom made jelly from Siberian crab apples.   

Allowing all those heirloom varieties to go away was a mistake.   Example:  Today just a few types of wheat are being grown and that's an invitation to disaster.
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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   July 31st 2017, 8:47 pm

@falcon wrote:
Connor, you are doing good work.  

Growing up in WV we had numerous heirloom varieties of fruit and veggies.   The original beef steak tomatoes stand out.   Farmers orchards often had heirloom apples like Rambo, Pumpkin Sweet and Spies (the locals called it Northern Spy.)   Mom made jelly from Siberian crab apples.   

Most don't realize how few fruits and veggies were native to North America. If it wasn't for Jefferson and Franklin the new world would have waited for several centuries before having seeds from around the world we enjoy today. France and Spain was responsible for trades with both these gentleman. Interesting the amount of work our early forefathers did in a number of areas to make us independent.

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 6:40 am

And Europe wouldn't have corn, potatoes, squash, tomatoes, sweet potatoes or .. turkeys. Got any turkey seeds to sell? Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 7:27 am

@patocazador wrote:
And Europe wouldn't have corn, potatoes, squash, tomatoes, sweet potatoes or .. turkeys. Got any turkey seeds to sell?  Wink


Wrong,

Thomas Jefferson was the first to introduce tomatoes, potatoes and many other vegetables to the new world brought from Europe. There were no tomatoes found in the new world. Read "Jefferson's Garden Book" two volumes for what he and several others brought here.

In trade Jefferson and a few others used what was grown here (not very much in those days). He got tobacco, and corn from the Native Americans. The pumpkins, squash from Mexico (originally a few small varieties of pumpkin brought from Spain).

I was in the period food business for over 25 years, cultivated and foraged (reenactment groups used us all the time). Spent a lot of time researching, studying early food, developed a very long list of correct foods for the reenactment folks.

We sold thousand of pounds of grains, seeds and plants at one time through two of our stores; "Buckhorn Rendezvous" and "Clark & Sons Mercantile Inc." in the store as well as on the Internet store. We ate and slept period correct foods for a long time.

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 12:39 pm

Jefferson was wrong. Potatoes and forerunners of tomatoes were grown in Bolivia and So. America before the Spaniards came.

Perhaps the Spanish brought them to Europe and Jefferson introduced them to the US? Look it up.

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 1:50 pm

@patocazador wrote:
Jefferson was wrong. Potatoes and forerunners of tomatoes were grown in Bolivia and So. America before the Spaniards came.

Perhaps the Spanish brought them to Europe and Jefferson introduced them to the US? Look it up.

There's a lot of discussions on this - for the most part Jefferson is credited with bringing the mentioned plants to North America from other parts of the world as is Franklins when having spent many years in Europe and else where. Both were the gardeners in our early years of this country look it up. ear bug

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 5:12 pm

@conner wrote:
@patocazador wrote:
And Europe wouldn't have corn, potatoes, squash, tomatoes, sweet potatoes or .. turkeys. Got any turkey seeds to sell?  Wink
Wrong,

Thomas Jefferson was the first to introduce tomatoes, potatoes and many other vegetables to the new world brought from Europe. There were no tomatoes found in the new world. Read "Jefferson's Garden Book" two volumes for what he and several others brought here.

In trade Jefferson and a few others used what was grown here (not very much in those days). He got tobacco, and corn from the Native Americans. The pumpkins, squash from Mexico (originally a few small varieties of pumpkin brought from Spain).


http://staff.esuhsd.org/balochie/studentprojects/newworldfoods/

You aren't wrong about Jefferson and Franklin being gardeners, etc. but you misstated the origin of tomatoes and potatoes.

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 1st 2017, 6:21 pm

I am a strong admirer of both Jefferson and Franklin. I admire you both. I'll play tie-breaker.

There is substantial, well established, and widely accepted proof of the origins of potatoes and tomatoes. Potatoes originate in South America and pre-date European exploration. Think 8,000 BC. To this day, the widest variety of potatoes may be found in and around the Andes. The tomato did not even reach Europe until the 16th century. These are known to have been cultivated by the Aztecs. Both were New World exports to the Old World.

The confusion is understandable as the colonies did not seem to get their potatoes directly from South America. They got them indirectly after they were established in Europe. There is record of them growing in Spain by 1570. The first record of their American colonial introduction seems to be in the 1620s. The British Governor of the Bahamas sent them to the Governor of Virginia colony. They "did not become widely accepted until they received an aristocratic seal of approval from Thomas Jefferson who served them to guests in the White House." - History Magazine

In related news, the popular 'potato gun,' was likely invented at Monticello by the bored Benji Franklin as a joke for his friend Tommy. Afterward, LaFayette showed up and they invented the French Fry. - This Source Is Completely Bogus

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 2nd 2017, 12:51 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Areas of period (heirloom) edibles - foraged and cultivated.   August 2nd 2017, 7:30 pm

Back in the late 60's the only firm I found that would talk to you were some hippy kids in NY state growing organic food for their uncles farm. They had a few heirloom seeds from New England they could supply.
Then in the mid 70's I contacted additional suppliers for more of a selection and got several of the bigger seed outfits to help with my heirloom seed project thanks to another couple of hippies that I knew now publishing Mother Earth News.

I'm telling a guy I have worked with for years at the phone company, give him an article by Mark Baker talking about some of the period foods that Clark & Sons Mercantile Inc. is supplying him (me).

He reads it at lunch time and asked if I have any more Muzzleloader magazines, I go to the car give him several older ones. The next day Jerry comes in and asked if I know Baker. Why, I know him, probably write him once a month about grains, flours and period correctness for his next article. I'm told "this guy is going to make someone sick, he's putting together items that don't work well". "Look here he's telling the readers he's breaking down sunflower pollen, untouched there's nothing finer." I ask Jerry "how do you know this"? He goes to his desk then comes back with a folder and shows me he has a PHD in edible plants, cultivated and foraged, plus is working on another degree in botany. 

You know: the plant science or botany is the study of plants. Horticulture, on the other hand, along with agronomy and other applied sciences, is the application of that knowledge to accomplish an economic or aesthetic purpose.

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