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conner
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PostSubject: White In-Line Rifles   July 1st 2017, 10:59 am

SUBJECT: White In-Line Rifles

I get asked about Doc White and his in-line rifles from the past.  Doc is still selling them and he has improved the performance with new models. Not being mass produced like in the past, building a half dozen at a time, has all the pieces that may be needed to repair or update the older models. Yes White Muzzleloaders are alive and well. The page shown below list everything he has available at this time, if there's something your looking for and don't see it give him a yell.

SEE:  http://whitemuzzleloading.com/on-sale/

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 1st 2017, 1:38 pm

Pete, check out H-031...

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 1st 2017, 1:55 pm

No, barrel too long, not a LH model, and i'm sure way too expensive.

I'm all set in my build now. It will be just the way I want it.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 7:09 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
No, barrel too long, not a LH model, and i'm sure way too expensive.

I'm all set in my build now. It will be just the way I want it.

That's the way it should be and that's what we are building which sometimes gets a little out of hand. Then I have to work with the customer to correct some part of the build that's not correct or was never done in the day. That can blow half a day with back and forth messages to get everyone back to going in the same direction for a quality built by GRRW CA firearm.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 7:46 am

That's also the way it was with Hawken. The way I understand it they would build whatever the customer wanted. Even a LH gun.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 8:53 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
That's also the way it was with Hawken. The way I understand it they would build whatever the customer wanted. Even a LH gun.

The fallacy of these builders is just like today its all about the bottom line $$$$$.  A good example is the Jim Bridger rifle. When GRRW had that original Hawken at their shop for 4 years, Carl Walker and Gardall Powell took the rifle down to bare bones. When they pulled the breech plug they found no rifling from the breech threads up the barrel for 5-6 inches where the rifling machine went astray wiping out the lands. Carl told me "mistakes were covered up and the rifles were sold in those days, labor and material was money. They couldn't throw away a minor mistake that would be money lost". You can see this once in a while with what we buy today; bad stitching, misaligned assembly of an item, poor finish and so on. We always think the older items were better than what's available today when its just newer not better in many cases.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 10:05 am

@conner wrote:

That's the way it should be and that's what we are building which sometimes gets a little out of hand. Then I have to work with the customer to correct some part of the build that's not correct or was never done in the day. That can blow half a day with back and forth messages to get everyone back to going in the same direction for a quality built by GRRW CA firearm.

(Chuckles) Not with me. I pretty much gave Carl his head- figured he knew what he was doing better than me. 'Honor the GRRW tradition' was about as specific as I got. I was specific about the stamps, but I wanted Carl to build it like 'it was' and he did. So, there were no changes made on this one. (If I was not as 'trouble free' as I think? School me, Buck.)

I did trouble him to tell me a few tall tales of the days of yore and some history about the rifle he was building. I also asked for pictures of he and Doc. I imagine a lot of folks get 'handsy' about the builds they are not- in fact- building. That would be a pain for the smith, I would think. (Build it yourself! scratch )
I also talked a lot about the rifle. That might have been annoying occasionally. Sleep Deadhorse

So, if I have another one built, Buck? Can I get a 'not-a-pain-in-the-ass' returning customer discount? pirat
Those engravings on Brownbear's rifle by Ron Paull look pretty neat.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 10:22 am

Yes, but you had an original kit built. Those parts aren't available anymore.

That's what disappointed me. I wanted an original GR gun like built in the 70's. That can't be had anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 10:25 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:

Those engravings on Brownbear's rifle by Ron Paull look pretty neat.

The Trapper Pistol that Ron built that was shown in Oct/Nov 2016 Muzzleloader was way over the top and never, ever built like that by GRRW. The owner kept changing his mind and driving the smith crazy with his demands. Finally I told them to get the pistol done, we have customers waiting for the smith's services. 

That was about as close as you can get to telling a client he's done. 

Finally the customer settled down with his demands that were way over what had been agreed on at the start. Once he figured I had a short fuse he backed off and the project was completed. 

Now he's happy and is now having a standard J&S Hawken with the fancy patch box built by the same smith, to be completed within this month.

Fun times, once they have passed......

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 10:49 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
Yes, but you had an original kit built. Those parts aren't available anymore.

That's what disappointed me. I wanted an original GR gun like built in the 70's. That can't be had anymore.

Original GRRW are out there seen on the Internet or like the low serial number one Doc has for sale. If the barrel is to long have Doc cut it to the length you want, that was done all the time back in the day of the plains guns. 


Here's a good example of using parts that would be considered junk by many. 

Top - GRRW CA Leman Trade Rifle - half stock (1st gun we GRRW CA built by Carl Walker). Serial Number GRRW CA #L01 CA.

2nd down - an original 1850-1860 Leman trade rifle (20 before would have been advertised as a Leman Indian Trade Rifle).

3rd down - is what's left of a GRRW copy of an original Leman Indian Trade Rifle that was cut down for horseback by native Americans. This GRRW copy went through a house fire, Herb Troester heard about this parts gun and picked it up and rebuilt it using everything he could in the way of parts, now has a 24 inch barreled (GRRW barrel) Leman Indian Trade Rifle like the original copied. Used, abused and burned to the ground and then rebuilt. Nice work Herb, good show ....

4th down - GRRW Leman Indian Trade Rifle built in 1975 (what number #3 would have looked like before all the changes). 

.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 10:54 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
Yes, but you had an original kit built. Those parts aren't available anymore.

That's what disappointed me. I wanted an original GR gun like built in the 70's. That can't be had anymore.

Yes, Pete, time travel is difficult. I could only manage it once. Laughing

I looked for that pistol, Buck. I have not found it. I know it is around. 
I am just looking at in the wrong places. The Muzzleloader magazines 
go Sept/Oct 2016 and Nov/Dec 2016

Nice peek into the 'finding parts' part of the process. Makes me want to go to Doc's 
warehouse even more. Maybe Pete could find his 'time machine.'

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 11:09 am


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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 4th 2017, 2:05 pm

Ah,yes. That one. I remember seeing it now. The wood carving stood out in my mind and not the hardware. He has a nice touch.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 8th 2017, 9:05 pm

Seems "Muley", "Bear Claw", "Pete", "Meat Head" has left the building John. You finally pissed him off ...  afro  you and your boys ....   :rtup  that's Ok he'll be back using a different name again ... Maybe we should think up some good names for our old friend, we know he would love that, "the old fart".  headslap

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   July 8th 2017, 9:47 pm

I thought he left to go camping?

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   August 5th 2017, 6:47 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Pete, check out H-031...

KC, that GRRW Hawken H031 sold for $1,400 (about average for a clean 1975 GRRW rifle in todays market). Some of the special ones like the Bridger Comm. Hawken from the 80's in unused condition have been bringing in the $2,500. Nice return on your money.

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   August 5th 2017, 8:12 pm

Very fun. That White site is a fun one to look at. http://whitemuzzleloading.com/on-sale/

It is good to know my guess about what they are starting for is not too far off then- except that one that just went for $3,622.00. 
If I could have just seen the future when the kits were still selling for $200.00 back in the 70's! Cool

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PostSubject: Re: White In-Line Rifles   August 6th 2017, 7:02 am

And completed rifles were in the $300.00 to $500.00 range then and left in the box, now add you can add a couple thousand to the investment price. I have said this before "I'm from a family that for generations were collectors of weapons". My father use to tell me "you can't go wrong buying good condition weapons, edged and shootable".

Throughout the years I have watched my 401K go up and down, but the value on the weapons stays steady at a slight increase in value each year. The my father believed in and invested in: whiskey, weapons, and cigarette stocks. They all did well through the years until the last few years with the government going after the cigarette industry.

When still appraising I would tell the client figure approximately 8-10% on your antique firearm collection per year (that has held pretty close).

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