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 Compact Hunting Sidelock

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rodwha



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : Texas
Registration date : 2012-07-10

PostSubject: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 10:23 am

I'm interested in a compact percussion .50 cal sidelock for hunting that works well with conicals and/or sabots. For the time being small Texas whitetail, axis, and hogs, but hopefully elk, mule deer, and black bear too (I hear they are quite tasty!).

My expectations may be a little high as I feel it ought to perform well enough out to 125 yds with a 100 yd 0 using 3F 777 and a conical if I can't get sabots to work well. I figure it should be within 4" of 0 vertically and hopefully group within 6".

I have found Lyman's Deerstalker and Pedersoli's Country Hunter that I really like. I like the more modern stock and sights of the Lyman, and that I can get a stainless barrel to match my ROA. But the Pedersoli has a 1:34" twist that I assume will work much better with sabots, although their load data states the use of a RB.

There's also the Traditions Deerhunter, but I've heard hit or miss quality with them. I also don't care for the larger gap between the rod and barrel.

I haven't rules out a Hawkens, though they are certainly at the far end of something I'd want to stomp around in the woods all weekend with.

What say you who are familiar?
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 10:40 am

I'd also like to keep recoil to about what a 12 ga pump is like as after a day shooting at dove I sure noticed the difference between it and an auto!
Recoil wouldn't matter so much hunting as there is only a shot or 3 made, but I love spending an afternoon shooting!

I have also considered the .54 cal, but don't see a good enough reason to. It just uses more powder, will kick harder, and will use up more of my lead if/when I get into casting, and I don't want my little .45 Ruger to get upset. I sure would like to see the stomping it would put on a big hog though!
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 2:10 pm

Most everything i've shot so far with my .54 had a hole right through them . On a few Warthogs and two Impala that hole was lenth wise !
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 2:29 pm

Spitfire: Using RB, conicals, or saboted bullets?
How close do you have to get for impala?
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 2:46 pm

Impala hunts here in my neck of the woods are short range affairs , mostly between 50 and 110 yards but sometimes as close as 30 . The shots that went through lenth wise was fired from +- 60 yards using 450gr Lyman conicals and 100gr's of 2F Wano.

On the rest i was using PRB's And 120gr's 2F Wano .
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 2:48 pm

What is the recoil like with that beast? What rifle is it?
Do you have any idea what kind of power those produce?
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 3:08 pm

The rifle is an Investarms Hawken with 1:48 rifling and weighs 8.5 lbs. With the 450's at 1400fps the recoil is about the same as the .375 H&H Mag with 300gr'ers.
The power at the muzzle is a little above 1900ft/lbs and about 1200ft/lbs at 110 yards.

The rifle for PRB's is also an Investarms Hawken but with 1:60 rifling also 8.5 lbs.
With them balls moving along at 1895fps recoil is brisk but not bad with more than 1700ft/lbs at the muzzle and 700 +ft/ibs at 110 yards.
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 11th 2012, 3:38 pm

That's a lot of whoopin'! And a lot of recoil.

I was quite surprised when I switched from a 12 ga auto to a pump using 2 3/4" shells with something like 7/8 oz shot during dove season. At the end of the day it was mildly tender.

For hunting recoil wouldn't be too much of an issue as there wouldn't be more than a few shots fired over a weekend, but I love to spend time at the range or out in the field.

I think the recoil issue has settled my decision on the Lyman's Deerstalker. As much as I like the idea of a 1:34" twist Country Hunter the 5.7 lb weight would be horrible on the shoulder no doubt! And I really like everything else I see about the rifle other than the twist.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 12th 2012, 2:02 am

Rodwa the critters this side of the pond are rather tough and as such i preferr to go on the heavy side with both bullet and powder . Measured against the recoil of my 500 Jeffereys the Hawhen is still a puppy !
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 12th 2012, 6:37 am

I have a feeling that, in my interest, I'd fire something like that only once! affraid
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 12th 2012, 9:09 am

I thought so too , but after firing it i had to have it !
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 13th 2012, 7:11 am

Never know I guess... I like some forms of abuse such as strong black coffee, imperial stouts and IPA's and such, backpacking with too much stuff, etc.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 15th 2012, 12:18 am

Yeah it seems that some of us are suckers for punishment !
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 15th 2012, 4:06 pm

Now I'm wanting to see what a full load of 3F with the heaviest conical will be like.

How does the 1:48" twist work in comparing it in .50 vs .54 cal? Is it actually a little better with conicals in a .50 cal, being a little slower in .54? Is that the right way to look at it?
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 17th 2012, 12:02 pm

Never had a .50 with 1:48 rifling but i think because the bullets will weigh less it will carry more speed than the .54. I think the real advantage of the .54 lies in the fact that it'll push a heavier PRB than the .50 .

The 1:48 twist is actually not best for conicals nor is it best for PRB's but if loaded for accuracy it'll more than hold it's own with both projectiles.
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 17th 2012, 2:25 pm

I'll be happy if it can hold a 6" group out at 125 yds. Of course further is better!
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 19th 2012, 2:05 pm

Rodwha i normally get around 11/2" groups from conicals at 130 yards and about 2" TO 21/2" groups from PRB's at 120 yds with open sights over shooting sticks.
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 19th 2012, 9:20 pm

With your 1:48" Hawkens? That's much better than I would have thought. I know that the BC is high enough on the aerodynamic conicals that it's possible to get a flat enough trajectory to shoot out to ~175 yds and stay within 4" of zero. And that was what I was hoping I could do with a good rest.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 20th 2012, 7:08 am

Yes with the right conical it might be possible, with the plains bullets i'm using the drop at 175yds is about 13".
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Caplock



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 31st 2012, 9:31 am

I have a Thompson Center Renegade and a Traditions Deerhunter. The Renegade stays in the safe where the Deerhunter gets handled quite often. There are two reasons for that. One is the trigger. I dislike the double trigger on the Renegade as opposed to the single, adjustable, trigger on the Deerhunter. The second is the drilled and tapped barrel on the Deerhunter. It is totally ready for a scope including an offset hammer. You won't get that with a Renegade right out of the box, if you can find one in a box, since they don't make them anymore. Try a Deerhunter one with some sabots and I'll bet you can do this at 100 yards easily. But if you dislike something as simple as a gap between the barrel and the ramrod then I guess form oversees function for you and there is nothing wrong with that. The Renegade is a better looking rifle.

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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   July 31st 2012, 10:00 am

Nice shooting there Caplock ! Yeah these rifles are accurate when you make the right moves Smile
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   August 23rd 2012, 3:21 pm

I really like the Lyman's .50 cal Deerstalker. I think I'd prefer the stainless model. Looking over their info it shows the blued model has .520" grooves and shows that's it's ideal for RB, whereas the stainless has .510" grooves and is ideal with conicals/sabots. Both have a 1:48" twist.

Would the shallow grooves in the stainless model not work well with RB?

I would prefer to hunt medium game with conicals, but would like to try out RB, especially for small game. As I have a ROA could I double patch a .457" RB theoretically?
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   August 23rd 2012, 4:05 pm

The shallow grooves will be better for conicals, but not too good for a PRB except with light loads.

If you want to shoot both. I'd get the blued model.

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shguns



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   August 23rd 2012, 5:44 pm

Have you considered a TC White Mountain Carbine?
I believe that you can find them used fairly regular on gunbroker.
Just a thought.
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rodwha



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PostSubject: Re: Compact Hunting Sidelock   August 23rd 2012, 8:46 pm

Though I would be interested in trying RB for medium game it would mostly be light loads for small game within 25-50 yds. I'd like to use modern conicals for larger game or sabots.

I'm not to certain about buying used as I don't like not knowing how well it was taken care of. Especially black powder arms.

I kinda like the more modern stock and sights of the Lyman's. I've also looked over the Pedersoli Country Hunter and Traditions Deerhunter.
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