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randyray41

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PostSubject: Interested in a SML   December 23rd 2013, 10:06 am

I am very interested in purchasing a SML. But I don't have 3-4k to spend on one!!!

I need some good advice on what route to take. What does it take to build one? Who makes one for a reasonable price?

Who is the SML expert?

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muznut

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 26th 2013, 12:39 pm

Buy an H&R centerfire or shotgun frame and send it to SMI (smokeless muzzleloading Inc) they use Douglass barrels. Or you can send them a 45-70 H&R or TC rifle and they will install their breech plug and recrown the barrel.
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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 26th 2013, 12:42 pm

Best advice would be to head over to Dougs Message Board for smokeless. If you don't have a lot of money I would buy a CVA Apex or TC Encore frame and a 45-70 Bergara barrel. Get ahold of slufoot over on dougs for the conversion. The barrel conversion is around 100 dollars, plug is like 32 dollars.
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MLN1963



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 26th 2013, 12:45 pm

@muznut wrote:
Buy an H&R centerfire or shotgun frame and send it to SMI (smokeless muzzleloading Inc) they use Douglass barrels. Or you can send them a 45-70 H&R or TC rifle and they will install their breech plug and recrown the barrel.

What is the cost of the conversion?

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a1smokepole

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 26th 2013, 3:20 pm

You can buy a Remington 700 ml and convert it to smokeless the gun may coast around 150.00 to 350.00 then you buy a barrel for around 300.00 to 600.00 lug around 35.00 hunters bolt kit 88.00  new fire pin spring 8.00  savage breech plug 35.00 stock ? go here for your parts luke will help you out.  http://smokelessmz.com/index.html this is where I buy my parts. and can help you with any gun you want to build this is what he does and very good at it. with the rem 700ml I have around 1600.00 in mine finished.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 26th 2013, 10:55 pm

Carlos can also give you some very good pointers.
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 27th 2013, 8:41 am

Wouldn't a Savage be the cheapest way?

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patocazador
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 27th 2013, 9:05 am

I thought a Savage SML would be just the ticket since I don't like to clean guns every day. It is good for that and the relatively cheap 2400 powder I use but the front-heavy barrel and light rear synthetic stock make for an awkward, heavy gun to carry.

After finding BH209 (thanks to this forum) and switching over to a Mag-Spark, I carry my lightweight Hawken Hunter and the Savage gathers dust. It is a good shooter out to 175-200 yards though.

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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 27th 2013, 9:43 am

Cheapest way would be to get a H&R 45-70 and have slufoot do the conversion on the barrel. Or if you could pick up a CVA Optima elite 45-70 cheap and have slufoot do the conversion. If you shop around you could have a nice lightweight break-action smokeless for 400 or less.
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brownisdown



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PostSubject: interested in sml   December 27th 2013, 1:39 pm

cva also has a 45-70 called stalker that could make a good sml if slutfoot does the conversion.
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MLN1963



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 27th 2013, 6:55 pm

@brownisdown wrote:
cva also has a 45-70 called stalker that could make a good sml if slutfoot does the conversion.

Slutfoot? That is some kind of name!

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Mark

I have more muzzleloaders than centerfires! How did that happen?

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cvilorio
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 27th 2013, 9:21 pm

@randyray41 wrote:
I am very interested in purchasing a SML. But I don't have 3-4k to spend on one!!!

I need some good advice on what route to take. What does it take to build one? Who makes one for a reasonable price?

Who is the SML expert?
Ok, here is what I would do, and since I have 3 45 cal. REM/MCGOWEN'S, one 40 cal. REM/PAC, one APEX conversion, one TC conversion, and have a 20" TC conversion coming Monday, and getting another REM/MCGOWEN 40 cal. built at this time, that kinds of makes me the expert even though there is not such a thing. I would go with the APEX 45/70 conversion. The gun will run about 489.00, plus the Savage BP which runs about 40.00, and 100.00 slufoot for the conversion, so in total you will have about 620.00 in to everything. That is what i would do, and believe me they are tack drivers.
Carlos
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muznut

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 28th 2013, 9:52 am

@MLN1963 wrote:
@muznut wrote:
Buy an H&R centerfire or shotgun frame and send it to SMI (smokeless muzzleloading Inc) they use Douglass barrels. Or you can send them a 45-70 H&R or TC rifle and they will install their breech plug and recrown the barrel.

What is the cost of the conversion?
All good advice here I forgot to mention slufoot I usually do. The SMI with the douglas barrel, ramrod, scope base and decapping tool is $375. Keep in mind that douglas is a fine barrel and just the barrel blank is probably over two hundred then they have to weld on the hinge plate thread and install the beech plug and crown the barrel. You could find an old H&R shotgun for probably 50 to 75 bucks. Another thing is I like SMI's breech plug better, its shorter but with the same or maybe more length off threads so thats better for ignition with slower burning powders. Also their plug is 9/16 diameter, that leaves more meat on the barrel. I think that is a good Idea for more strenght.
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 28th 2013, 10:15 am

Just curious, because I know almost nothing about SML guns.

What's wrong with the Savage? They make damn accurate CF guns. ML not the same?

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Tony

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 7:42 am

I, too, know very little about smokeless muzzleloading.  Is 300-400 fps really that important?  I thought 120 grains of BH209 will spit out 250 grain bullets at 2,100 and 200 grainers a bit quicker.  Is shooting 2,700 that much of an advantage in the hunting realm?  Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing smokeless one bit.  What Carlos and Greg do with their SMLs is amazing.  I'm just saying as far as hunting deer and elk, it seems that Blackhorn holds it own.  So why convert?

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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 8:02 am

Tony I agree with you , I started hunting with a muzzleloader because of it's "short comings". It's more of a challenge if you have to get close before getting a chance to take a shot.
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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 11:30 am

There's several advantages of a smokeless gun. Not only can you shoot 2700+ fps but you can shoot bigger bullets that have a much higher B.C. then a lot of the bullets used typically. Of course when you are shooting a high b.c. bullet at high velocities you can really reach out there and accurately. Not to mentioned how clean smokeless is and how cheap the powder is compared to BH209 but you could easily get into some expensive bullets though. Just all boils down to what a person is looking for in a muzzleloader.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 12:00 pm

I'm not disputing the advantages you have over a traditional muzzleloader but I use them because of the disadvantage they put me at .

On the other end I see why Pete want to use one as well.
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 12:09 pm

My problem is it's a rifle season gun, and why not use a CF gun in those seasons?

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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 12:15 pm

Some states do not allow centerfire guns at all but will allow smokeless muzzleloaders.
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 12:20 pm

I'm only speaking for myself. I never said an SML has no use.

If I could use one in ML season. I'd think about it just for the lighter recoil alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 7:19 pm

Muley wrote:
Just curious, because I know almost nothing about SML guns.

What's wrong with the Savage? They make damn accurate CF guns. ML not the same?
First they don't make the gun any more, and when they did it was not really as accurate as the ones being built by the guys on Doughs message board, and I really don't care for a 50 cal. which after a while won't shoot as good as any of the 45 cal. out. Most guys buy the gun to use the action as a platform to built a 45 cal using either a PAC NOR or McGOWEN barrels in 45 cal. and shoot sabotless. I hope this helps you. No offense to the guys that own one.
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   December 30th 2013, 8:20 pm

Oh ok. I thought they were still making small runs of them. I see them brand new all the time on Gunbroker. Must be leftovers.

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randyray41

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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   January 21st 2014, 1:52 pm

Thought I would do an update on my post.  I have my SML being built by Hillbill out of Tennessee.  Built on a SS 700ML action, with a .45 cal pac-nor 25" 1-22" twist. Revolution thumbhole laminate varmit stock, etc.   Should be a fantastic shooter. Will probably have $1500 in rifle.

Anyone who is interested in the SML world, Doug's message board has great pioneers and what I say to be experts in the SML world who will give tons of Advice.

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Remington 700ml conversion
Pacnor 24" .45 cal 1:22 twist SML
Harrell Tactical Muzzlebreak
Revolution Laminate Thumbhole Varmit stock
Murphy 20moa SS base
Warne Maxima SS rings
Nikon 4X12x40 BDC
275 Gr Parker Match Hunter
2750 FPS++

CVA Accura V2 .50 cal
Nikon Omega 3X9X40 300 BDC
250 gr Barnes TEz
150 gr T7
2180 FPS

Knight TK200 NWTF
3 1/2" 12 ga  100gr. RS

Pietta 1858  .44 cal 5 1/2" New Army
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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: Interested in a SML   January 21st 2014, 2:02 pm

@randyray41 wrote:
Thought I would do an update on my post.  I have my SML being built by Hillbill out of Tennessee.  Built on a SS 700ML action, with a .45 cal pac-nor 25" 1-22" twist. Revolution thumbhole laminate varmit stock, etc.   Should be a fantastic shooter. Will probably have $1500 in rifle.

Anyone who is interested in the SML world, Doug's message board has great pioneers and what I say to be experts in the SML world who will give tons of Advice.

I have only heard great things about Hillbill's work and the pictures of his guns shows it. You should have an awesome gun when you get it.
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