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 2014 tradiation is out

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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 25th 2014, 9:21 pm

There's no need to take 300yd shots at elk. We have to use open sights in Colorado, and lots of elk are taken in ML season.

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 25th 2014, 10:09 pm

Just aim a couple feet over their back and your good to go. Their big targets.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 25th 2014, 11:46 pm

37" drop with my 58 and 200 yards. I bet if i filed my front sight down i could do 300.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 5:32 am

I own Carlos's 20" T/C Encore barrel and love it.  You can keep those longer barrels. What advantage does a 30" have? None that interests me.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 6:58 am

Muley, Elk live other places than Colorado Laughing
Jaybez have you chrono'd your short barrel to see what the velocities are? Accuracy is very important but so are energy and drop. The drop can be figured out with shooting but you can't make up energy without increasing velocity. In my opinion this would be the reason for the long barrel. I don't believe my long barrel is more accurate than a short barrel.

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 8:51 am

What does it matter where they live? An elk is an elk.  scratch 

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:05 am

Well in other states you can use scopes so 300 yards isn't as difficult to hit.  The animal itself would not be different.

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:07 am

Muley wrote:
Not a fan of long barrels Marty. They just get in the way in the woods.

Remember Carlos shooting 1" groups with a CVA cut down to a 20" barrel?
 scratch ...Being the traditional purist you are, those PRB long-guns you enjoy must get in the way all the time in the woods. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:17 am

@Marty wrote:
Muley wrote:
Not a fan of long barrels Marty. They just get in the way in the woods.

Remember Carlos shooting 1" groups with a CVA cut down to a 20" barrel?
 scratch ...Being the traditional purist you are, those PRB long-guns you enjoy must get in the way all the time in the woods. Razz

Long barrels on inlines is what I was talking about.

Sidelocks shooting BP work better with longer barrels

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Last edited by Muley on January 26th 2014, 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:19 am

I know Muley...I'm just yankin' your chain a little  Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:20 am

@biddler2 wrote:
Well in other states you can use scopes so 300 yards isn't as difficult to hit.  The animal itself would not be different.

My point is you never have to take 300yd shots. Scopes are used here in all seasons, except ML. Even in ML season I can use a scope, but the shots will still be close.

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 9:22 am

@Marty wrote:
I know Muley...I'm just yankin' your chain a little  Laughing

Did I leave that chain hanging out again?

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 10:31 am

@biddler2 wrote:
No doubt the accuracy is there, do you have velocity numbers?  I know it's just a calculation but KE is greatly effected by velocity. I could see the numbers being ok for deer at longer range but wonder about it being high enough for larger game like elk. Using data from NAML for the LDR and a 300 grain PT Gold with a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps at 300 yards it would have 1058 ft pounds KE. By reducing the velocity for a 10" shorter barrel by a factor of 30 fps loss per inch gives us 1700 fps. Using this number in my ballistics calculator it is good for 808 ft pounds KE at 300. This is a 250 ft pound difference which is fairly substantial.  I have never been elk hunting but it seems most people want energy levels above 1000 ft pounds of KE. 

Another part of the discussion is bullet drop. The same ballistic calculator shows almost 15" more drop for the slower bullet. I have never shot 300 yards before to know how accurate the DOA is at this range. I know it is pretty good on my LDR at 200. Carlos I know you have done a lot of shooting at longer ranges and are an excellent shot. Are the numbers I'm using reasonable?  If so then this is the justification I would use for having a longer barrel. On the flip side I could see where the shorter barrel would be great if only hunting deer and you still wanted to go to 300 yards since it is still above 800 ft pounds.
biddler2, i did crony the loads between the long barrel and the short barrel at one time, and if I can find them I will post them. But if a remember correctly, there only a difference of 80 t0 100 fps between the long barrel and the short one, so really I was not loosing much. As far as drop goes, I can tell you since all the scopes I use are BDC scopes.
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 26th 2014, 12:29 pm

If that is the case then I see your point. I felt my guess of 300 fps was on the high side but I'm shocked if it is only 100 fps difference. That makes it about 100 ft pounds of KE less than the long barrel and 5" more drop. 
I know on most centerfire rifles guys claim around 25-40 fps loss per inch of barrel length.

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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 27th 2014, 6:22 pm

Well an update on things I learned from yesterday. Item one is I need a chronograph, I'm a data junky by nature and have been evolved in testing and R&D for the last 15 years in the automotive/ safety product testing. So fully developing loads and knowing what velocities I'm getting would be good. 
Secondly I found some data that could back up Carlo's numbers. NAML has some tests with short barrels. One rifle was a shortened NEF muzzleloader approximately 18.5" and it was about 200 fps slower than his data for the LDR. But he had another short barrel muzzleloader that was giving numbers close to what Carlo's saw. So this leads me to think that the ignition system must be making a big difference. It appears that the ignition system of the LDR is a little lacking since it isn't producing as much of a difference. I wish I had the money to shorten an LDR barrel to prove this. 
In closing if you have a good ignition system going with a shorty would not be a velocity killer and has some benefits. On the other hand if your ignition system isn't as good you need the barrel length to have good velocity. 
Pete the jury is still out if anything can take a Colorado Elk down at any distance. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: 2014 tradiation is out    January 28th 2014, 6:33 am

Carlos, that is absolutely amazing!! Wow!! Most would be ecstatic about those groups at 150 yards.  Impressive, sir.

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