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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Sun 9 Nov - 19:31

@GregK wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
If I understand it correctly, Lehigh has a contract with knight and in that Lehigh can not market any of their bullets as muzzleloader bullets. So I am not sure really how much share they can compete for directly.
Lehigh does indeed have an agreement with Knight to only build bullets marketed as M/L bullets for them. However, that does not mean that Lehigh cannot build other bullets than can be used for multiple things. They manufacture a wide range of bullets that are more than M/L capable & friendly.
Lehigh is not out to hurt Knight's sales or step on their toes in any way shape or form but they are in the business of designing, testing, manufacturing, & selling top quality bullets for target shooters as well as hunters
If, for any reason this is a conflicting issue for you then by all means buy the Knight Bloodline branded bullets, if not, try some of the Lehigh's. I think you'll be impressed - Greg




No there is no conflicting issue for me. I won't buy bloodlines because of the price. I don't suspect the sales of bloodlines are extremely high either so there probably isn't an issue if they go about it right. My point is that I do not think Lehigh will be taking much of the muzzleing market share from Barnes anytime soon. Especially when they can't even market a bullet as a muzzleloader bullet and bloodlines don't sell anywhere near as much bullets as Barnes either. 

In reality, whoever has their bullets in the most variety of stores is going to control the market. People like us on these forums are a very small percentage in light of the big picture. More people probably use hornady xtp's and powerbelts than anything. I wish the best for Lehigh and if they offer something that is competitive in price and performance with Barnes I will try them. You can never have too many choices.
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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Sun 9 Nov - 19:45

@ericcosh wrote:
@GregK wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
If I understand it correctly, Lehigh has a contract with knight and in that Lehigh can not market any of their bullets as muzzleloader bullets. So I am not sure really how much share they can compete for directly.
Lehigh does indeed have an agreement with Knight to only build bullets marketed as M/L bullets for them. However, that does not mean that Lehigh cannot build other bullets than can be used for multiple things. They manufacture a wide range of bullets that are more than M/L capable & friendly.
Lehigh is not out to hurt Knight's sales or step on their toes in any way shape or form but they are in the business of designing, testing, manufacturing, & selling top quality bullets for target shooters as well as hunters
If, for any reason this is a conflicting issue for you then by all means buy the Knight Bloodline branded bullets, if not, try some of the Lehigh's. I think you'll be impressed - Greg




No there is no conflicting issue for me. I won't buy bloodlines because of the price. I don't suspect the sales of bloodlines are extremely high either so there probably isn't an issue if they go about it right. My point is that I do not think Lehigh will be taking much of the muzzleing market share from Barnes anytime soon. Especially when they can't even market a bullet as a muzzleloader bullet and bloodlines don't sell anywhere near as much bullets as Barnes either. 

In reality, whoever has their bullets in the most variety of stores is going to control the market. People like us on these forums are a very small percentage in light of the big picture. More people probably use hornady xtp's and powerbelts than anything. I wish the best for Lehigh and if they offer something that is competitive in price and performance with Barnes I will try them. You can never have too many choices.
Personally, for me I'd rather pay more for a bullet that IS a premium bullet than something that saves me money. Don't get me wrong.....I LOVE a good deal & Carlos is working out the details with them on that front. When you look at what people spend on Powerbelts, none of them should have any issue buying either a Barnes or a Lehigh.

As for sales, I think you'd be shocked if you knew the huge number of bullet sales Carlos has each year through forum members.

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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biddler2



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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Sun 9 Nov - 19:55

I agree with you Eric on the Knight sales as they are not the company they once were and I don't see there products on the shelves locally like I did 15 years ago. On the plus side I haven't heard of many complaints with the bloodlines other than cost. Powerbelts, XTP, and SST's will sell more being in Walmart and such. I don't seethe Barnes at that level yet nor do I expect them or Lehigh to be there.

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cvilorio
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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 15:57

@ericcosh wrote:
@GregK wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
If I understand it correctly, Lehigh has a contract with knight and in that Lehigh can not market any of their bullets as muzzleloader bullets. So I am not sure really how much share they can compete for directly.
Lehigh does indeed have an agreement with Knight to only build bullets marketed as M/L bullets for them. However, that does not mean that Lehigh cannot build other bullets than can be used for multiple things. They manufacture a wide range of bullets that are more than M/L capable & friendly.
Lehigh is not out to hurt Knight's sales or step on their toes in any way shape or form but they are in the business of designing, testing, manufacturing, & selling top quality bullets for target shooters as well as hunters
If, for any reason this is a conflicting issue for you then by all means buy the Knight Bloodline branded bullets, if not, try some of the Lehigh's. I think you'll be impressed - Greg




No there is no conflicting issue for me. I won't buy bloodlines because of the price. I don't suspect the sales of bloodlines are extremely high either so there probably isn't an issue if they go about it right. My point is that I do not think Lehigh will be taking much of the muzzleing market share from Barnes anytime soon. Especially when they can't even market a bullet as a muzzleloader bullet and bloodlines don't sell anywhere near as much bullets as Barnes either. 

In reality, whoever has their bullets in the most variety of stores is going to control the market. People like us on these forums are a very small percentage in light of the big picture. More people probably use hornady xtp's and powerbelts than anything. I wish the best for Lehigh and if they offer something that is competitive in price and performance with Barnes I will try them. You can never have too many choices.

@biddler2 wrote:
I agree with you Eric on the Knight sales as they are not the company they once were and I don't see there products on the shelves locally like I did 15 years ago. On the plus side I haven't heard of many complaints with the bloodlines other than cost. Powerbelts, XTP, and SST's will sell more being in Walmart and such. I don't seethe Barnes at that level yet nor do I expect them or Lehigh to be there.
Let me jump in here. first of all the Barnes out sell the POWER BELTS no doubt in my mind. Last year we sold over 30,000 Barnes bullets ans this year we are well above that, last count was close to 40,000, as a matter of fact I have been out of them for a month. As far as Lehigh goes, it is correct to state that because of the agreement the have with Knight they can't make or sell any ML bullets to any one but Knight. However They do not need to make a bullet just specific for a ML, they have plenty of product right now that can be use for this purpose. I already proved the with their XP's 250 gr. .451/452. This bullet is extremely accurate, and devastating on deer, no doubt in my mind about the performance. If you look at the market closely like I do, most manufacturers are going away from your lead core bullet and going to a copper bullet. Good sample of this is the new FEDERAL TROPHY COPPER, and the HORNADY MONOFLEX which are made from wielded copper, and as far as I can tell, if POWER BELT bullet does not do something to compete in the market they going to be hurting. Another thing to consider is the new FED. with the designed they came up with, with not having to mess with a sabot, and yes they will shoot, I'm having a hard time getting them, and I already sold out twice. As far as rprice goes< I do not have any problem what so ever paying more for a premium quality bullet, the Barnes run .84 per bullet, the MONO's .80 per bullet and the FED'S about 1.33 per bullet, but you are getting a top quality bullet the will do the job.  As of now I'm working on pricing with Lehigh, and once I work out where I need to be I will start stocking them, and yes they will put a hurt on Barnes if I have anything to do with. Like I said before, if you want to try some XP's out of you ML just let me know and I will be more then glad to send you some, they shoot great with the harvester black smooth.  As far as Lehigh being able to compete i the ML market, there is no doubt in my mine that they can do it, and get quite a big share of the market.  Of course if you do not have a ML or SML you will not understand what I'm talking about, and Biddler2 this is not directed at you what so ever, I know you have one. Any comments you have my e-mail.
Carlos
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 16:14

The way I look at it and always have, use the expensive bullets for hunting, not paper punching. Putting together a hunt costs a lot of money today, why get cheap on 1 or 2 bullets you will actually use in the field?
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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 17:44

@cvilorio wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
@GregK wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
If I understand it correctly, Lehigh has a contract with knight and in that Lehigh can not market any of their bullets as muzzleloader bullets. So I am not sure really how much share they can compete for directly.
Lehigh does indeed have an agreement with Knight to only build bullets marketed as M/L bullets for them. However, that does not mean that Lehigh cannot build other bullets than can be used for multiple things. They manufacture a wide range of bullets that are more than M/L capable & friendly.
Lehigh is not out to hurt Knight's sales or step on their toes in any way shape or form but they are in the business of designing, testing, manufacturing, & selling top quality bullets for target shooters as well as hunters
If, for any reason this is a conflicting issue for you then by all means buy the Knight Bloodline branded bullets, if not, try some of the Lehigh's. I think you'll be impressed - Greg




No there is no conflicting issue for me. I won't buy bloodlines because of the price. I don't suspect the sales of bloodlines are extremely high either so there probably isn't an issue if they go about it right. My point is that I do not think Lehigh will be taking much of the muzzleing market share from Barnes anytime soon. Especially when they can't even market a bullet as a muzzleloader bullet and bloodlines don't sell anywhere near as much bullets as Barnes either. 

In reality, whoever has their bullets in the most variety of stores is going to control the market. People like us on these forums are a very small percentage in light of the big picture. More people probably use hornady xtp's and powerbelts than anything. I wish the best for Lehigh and if they offer something that is competitive in price and performance with Barnes I will try them. You can never have too many choices.

@biddler2 wrote:
I agree with you Eric on the Knight sales as they are not the company they once were and I don't see there products on the shelves locally like I did 15 years ago. On the plus side I haven't heard of many complaints with the bloodlines other than cost. Powerbelts, XTP, and SST's will sell more being in Walmart and such. I don't seethe Barnes at that level yet nor do I expect them or Lehigh to be there.
Let me jump in here. first of all the Barnes out sell the POWER BELTS no doubt in my mind. Last year we sold over 30,000 Barnes bullets ans this year we are well above that, last count was close to 40,000, as a matter of fact I have been out of them for a month. As far as Lehigh goes, it is correct to state that because of the agreement the have with Knight they can't make or sell any ML bullets to any one but Knight. However They do not need to make a bullet just specific for a ML, they have plenty of product right now that can be use for this purpose. I already proved the with their XP's 250 gr. .451/452. This bullet is extremely accurate, and devastating on deer, no doubt in my mind about the performance. If you look at the market closely like I do, most manufacturers are going away from your lead core bullet and going to a copper bullet. Good sample of this is the new FEDERAL TROPHY COPPER, and the HORNADY MONOFLEX which are made from wielded copper, and as far as I can tell, if POWER BELT bullet does not do something to compete in the market they going to be hurting. Another thing to consider is the new FED. with the designed they came up with, with not having to mess with a sabot, and yes they will shoot, I'm having a hard time getting them, and I already sold out twice. As far as rprice goes< I do not have any problem what so ever paying more for a premium quality bullet, the Barnes run .84 per bullet, the MONO's .80 per bullet and the FED'S about 1.33 per bullet, but you are getting a top quality bullet the will do the job.  As of now I'm working on pricing with Lehigh, and once I work out where I need to be I will start stocking them, and yes they will put a hurt on Barnes if I have anything to do with. Like I said before, if you want to try some XP's out of you ML just let me know and I will be more then glad to send you some, they shoot great with the harvester black smooth.  As far as Lehigh being able to compete i the ML market, there is no doubt in my mine that they can do it, and get quite a big share of the market.  Of course if you do not have a ML or SML you will not understand what I'm talking about, and Biddler2 this is not directed at you what so ever, I know you have one. Any comments you have my e-mail.
Carlos

Guess its directed at me because I don't currently have a muzzleloader. Maybe one day I can own one so I can understand.  lol!
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cvilorio
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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 17:52

@ericcosh wrote:
@cvilorio wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
@GregK wrote:
@ericcosh wrote:
If I understand it correctly, Lehigh has a contract with knight and in that Lehigh can not market any of their bullets as muzzleloader bullets. So I am not sure really how much share they can compete for directly.
Lehigh does indeed have an agreement with Knight to only build bullets marketed as M/L bullets for them. However, that does not mean that Lehigh cannot build other bullets than can be used for multiple things. They manufacture a wide range of bullets that are more than M/L capable & friendly.
Lehigh is not out to hurt Knight's sales or step on their toes in any way shape or form but they are in the business of designing, testing, manufacturing, & selling top quality bullets for target shooters as well as hunters
If, for any reason this is a conflicting issue for you then by all means buy the Knight Bloodline branded bullets, if not, try some of the Lehigh's. I think you'll be impressed - Greg




No there is no conflicting issue for me. I won't buy bloodlines because of the price. I don't suspect the sales of bloodlines are extremely high either so there probably isn't an issue if they go about it right. My point is that I do not think Lehigh will be taking much of the muzzleing market share from Barnes anytime soon. Especially when they can't even market a bullet as a muzzleloader bullet and bloodlines don't sell anywhere near as much bullets as Barnes either. 

In reality, whoever has their bullets in the most variety of stores is going to control the market. People like us on these forums are a very small percentage in light of the big picture. More people probably use hornady xtp's and powerbelts than anything. I wish the best for Lehigh and if they offer something that is competitive in price and performance with Barnes I will try them. You can never have too many choices.

@biddler2 wrote:
I agree with you Eric on the Knight sales as they are not the company they once were and I don't see there products on the shelves locally like I did 15 years ago. On the plus side I haven't heard of many complaints with the bloodlines other than cost. Powerbelts, XTP, and SST's will sell more being in Walmart and such. I don't seethe Barnes at that level yet nor do I expect them or Lehigh to be there.
Let me jump in here. first of all the Barnes out sell the POWER BELTS no doubt in my mind. Last year we sold over 30,000 Barnes bullets ans this year we are well above that, last count was close to 40,000, as a matter of fact I have been out of them for a month. As far as Lehigh goes, it is correct to state that because of the agreement the have with Knight they can't make or sell any ML bullets to any one but Knight. However They do not need to make a bullet just specific for a ML, they have plenty of product right now that can be use for this purpose. I already proved the with their XP's 250 gr. .451/452. This bullet is extremely accurate, and devastating on deer, no doubt in my mind about the performance. If you look at the market closely like I do, most manufacturers are going away from your lead core bullet and going to a copper bullet. Good sample of this is the new FEDERAL TROPHY COPPER, and the HORNADY MONOFLEX which are made from wielded copper, and as far as I can tell, if POWER BELT bullet does not do something to compete in the market they going to be hurting. Another thing to consider is the new FED. with the designed they came up with, with not having to mess with a sabot, and yes they will shoot, I'm having a hard time getting them, and I already sold out twice. As far as rprice goes< I do not have any problem what so ever paying more for a premium quality bullet, the Barnes run .84 per bullet, the MONO's .80 per bullet and the FED'S about 1.33 per bullet, but you are getting a top quality bullet the will do the job.  As of now I'm working on pricing with Lehigh, and once I work out where I need to be I will start stocking them, and yes they will put a hurt on Barnes if I have anything to do with. Like I said before, if you want to try some XP's out of you ML just let me know and I will be more then glad to send you some, they shoot great with the harvester black smooth.  As far as Lehigh being able to compete i the ML market, there is no doubt in my mine that they can do it, and get quite a big share of the market.  Of course if you do not have a ML or SML you will not understand what I'm talking about, and Biddler2 this is not directed at you what so ever, I know you have one. Any comments you have my e-mail.
Carlos

Guess its directed at me because I don't currently have a muzzleloader. Maybe one day I can own one so I can understand.  lol!
All I have to say is, if the shoe fit wear it. End of conversation for me. Very Happy
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ericcosh



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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 18:02

:tup2
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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: NEW LTD EDITION MR   Mon 10 Nov - 21:36

Carlos, thanks for the support buddy cheers cheers cheers Very Happy Very Happy  You da man!!!

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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