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 CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush

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olehunter

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PostSubject: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 9:31 am

The  guy that my brother in law bought his new CVA Accura V2 Nitride NW edition was told not to use the brush on the barrel when cleaning .
 I have reread the instruction book and searched the forums and haven't read that any where ,, What's your advice .. Robert
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 9:51 am

Use a nylon bore brush.
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 10:33 am

X2 on the nylon brush.


Dave
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 3:14 pm

Ugh I used the brass brush once ,,Hope I don't get a bullet stuck side ways in the barrel or point it down and ever thing fails out on the ground,,LOL
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 6:24 pm

the nitride on thr CVA is very tuff...it is part of the metal..if you read on nitride oxide coatings ...your brass or bronze brush will never wear it out or off....its not a spray on coating..its a metal conversion..and it does make the steel stronger

Per LWRC,
Quote :
"These barrels can take a lot more use and abuse than a standard barrel before any degradation in accuracy or loss of velocity. NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. Our barrels can handle 20,000 rounds before replacement, as compared to 6,000-10,000 rounds on a standard M4."


Per CMMG,
Quote :
"Nitriding offers improved wear, abrasion, and corrosion resistance when compared to hard chrome lining or phosphating. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues."


BLACKNITRIDE™, or Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, is the thermochemical that simultaneously diffuses nitrogen and carbon into the surface of ferrous metals. During the process, a two-part surface layer is formed, an outer iron nitride layer with a nitrogen diffusion layer below it. During this treatment, nitrogen and carbon are absorbed by and diffused into the surface of the metal. Reproducible and uniform layers with a predetermined thickness will be formed on all areas of the metal. The result of this process is markedly improved surface properties on ferrous metal parts while maintaining dimensional and shape stability.
Metal components treated with BLACKNITRIDE™ have increased wear-resistance, fatigue strength, corrosion resistance, lubricity and cosmetic appeal. Often replacing the more expensive processes of hard chrome or nickel plating, BLACKNITRIDE™ gives better corrosion protection at equivalent or lower costs. Additionally, BLACKNITRIDE™ is commonly used as an alternative to high temperature conventional heat treatments such as carburizing and carbonitriding.

Ferratic Nitride: This is the most advanced firearms finish we offer. Nitride offers exceptional wear resistance, excellent corrosion resistance and a uniform black color. This finish treats both the inside and outside of all parts of the rifle made of ferrous metal. Nitride will offer the benefits of a chrome lined bore without the disadvantages. As this finish is not a plating, but a heat treatment process, it actually changes the surface of the steel and preserves the finish characteristics (lapped finish) of the bore and can not flake off. Nitride will result in a surface hardness of nearly 70 Rockwell C scale, meaning that you can run a file across it and it will not scratch. Nitride is self-lubricating, eliminating the need to add oil to your firearm. This finish can be top-coated (with some surface prep) with DuraCoat or Film Transfer, allowing a variety of colors

I would not worry about a softer metal brush harming the finish....

there is a video on you tube where the guy takes a knife and scrapes it along the barrel with the Blade..not a scratch on it....
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 7:09 pm

@Al-53 wrote:
the nitride on thr CVA is very tuff...it is part of the metal..if you read on nitride oxide coatings ...your brass or bronze brush will never wear it out or off....its not a spray on coating..its a metal conversion..and it does make the steel stronger

Per LWRC,
Quote :
"These barrels can take a lot more use and abuse than a standard barrel before any degradation in accuracy or loss of velocity. NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. Our barrels can handle 20,000 rounds before replacement, as compared to 6,000-10,000 rounds on a standard M4."


Per CMMG,
Quote :
"Nitriding offers improved wear, abrasion, and corrosion resistance when compared to hard chrome lining or phosphating. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues."


BLACKNITRIDE™, or Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, is the thermochemical that simultaneously diffuses nitrogen and carbon into the surface of ferrous metals. During the process, a two-part surface layer is formed, an outer iron nitride layer with a nitrogen diffusion layer below it. During this treatment, nitrogen and carbon are absorbed by and diffused into the surface of the metal. Reproducible and uniform layers with a predetermined thickness will be formed on all areas of the metal. The result of this process is markedly improved surface properties on ferrous metal parts while maintaining dimensional and shape stability.
Metal components treated with BLACKNITRIDE™ have increased wear-resistance, fatigue strength, corrosion resistance, lubricity and cosmetic appeal. Often replacing the more expensive processes of hard chrome or nickel plating, BLACKNITRIDE™ gives better corrosion protection at equivalent or lower costs. Additionally, BLACKNITRIDE™ is commonly used as an alternative to high temperature conventional heat treatments such as carburizing and carbonitriding.

Ferratic Nitride: This is the most advanced firearms finish we offer. Nitride offers exceptional wear resistance, excellent corrosion resistance and a uniform black color. This finish treats both the inside and outside of all parts of the rifle made of ferrous metal. Nitride will offer the benefits of a chrome lined bore without the disadvantages. As this finish is not a plating, but a heat treatment process, it actually changes the surface of the steel and preserves the finish characteristics (lapped finish) of the bore and can not flake off. Nitride will result in a surface hardness of nearly 70 Rockwell C scale, meaning that you can run a file across it and it will not scratch. Nitride is self-lubricating, eliminating the need to add oil to your firearm. This finish can be top-coated (with some surface prep) with DuraCoat or Film Transfer, allowing a variety of colors

I would not worry about a softer metal brush harming the finish....

there is a video on you tube where the guy takes a knife and scrapes it along the barrel with the Blade..not a scratch on it....

Thank you for your reply ,I think That I will tend to be careful while cleaning mine after going to the range/hunting trips,, Thank you Robert
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 7:28 pm

your welcome Ray....the nitride conversion made the metal harder and wear resistant...scrub away...some of the race car engines have nitride coated cylinder walls...if the up an down motion of a running engine does not wear it...a soft brass brush will wear out before it makes a dent in the finish..lol...
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 17th 2015, 9:22 pm

Just like I said. It doesn't need oil for rust prevention.

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 18th 2015, 8:59 am

Al,
Thanks again for posting that info on oiling the nitrite barrel. Puts my mind at ease and a few of the other members who were interested in getting and answer to that same question in the ML'er Tune up section, "Cleaning solvents for 209" concerning oiling their barrels. We all appreciate it. Thanks for the research. :rtup

Ray............ Shooter

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 18th 2015, 9:03 am

Stands to reason that if corrosion can't penetrate the Nitride treated metal, that oil isn't needed. What purpose would the oil be needed for?

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 18th 2015, 10:26 pm

I have been hearing use a Windex soaked patch ..The reason I was getting a crud ring was from the oil in my barrel,, any thoughts ,, From Oregon musket,, cap,,
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 18th 2015, 10:40 pm

No, the crud ring is just nasty stuff that is left behind from the powder itself when it gets burnt. Triple 7 is really bad at leaving it, but pyrodex and even goex can leave it behind as well. The cooler the ignition system, the lesser chance of a crud ring at the breech. A reverse crud ring however, will build up at the muzzle.
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 18th 2015, 11:29 pm

Ok thank you ,,Now can I use the conical bullet with out  the bore butter , with the nitride finish on the barrel, Its supposed to not require oil ? ,, All newbie questions  but need the help,, personally I would like to use lube ,Out side question ,, from family ,, Robert
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 12:18 am

Greased bullets are made that way to prevent lead fouling from building up to heavy.
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 7:01 am

@olehunter wrote:
Ok thank you ,,Now can I use the conical bullet with out  the bore butter , with the nitride finish on the barrel, Its supposed to not require oil ? ,, All newbie questions  but need the help,, personally I would like to use lube ,Out side question ,, from family ,, Robert
What conical are you using?

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 8:09 am

Right now Maxi-hunter 275 gr ,,,But Oregon is talking no lead ban , So I have been searching for other options ,There's a guy in Idaho using a MMP Sub- bridge as a wad under  3 or 4 different bullets ,,Speer gold Dot , Barnes XPB , Lehigh bloodline  bullets ,He has to knurl the bullets ,but is getting great results out of these bullets ,,
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 8:14 am

@olehunter wrote:
Right now Maxi-hunter 275 gr ,,,But Oregon is talking no lead ban , So I have been searching for other options ,There's a guy in Idaho using a MMP Sub- bridge as a wad under  3 or 4 different bullets ,,Speer gold Dot , Barnes XPB , Lehigh bloodline  bullets ,He has to knurl the bullets ,but is getting great results out of these bullets ,,
Yes, that's Mike. (sabotloader) You'll need no lube with the bullets he's using. If you use the lead bullets that come lubed, you have to use the lube.

Here's another all copper bullet that needs no lube.

https://www.thorbullets.com/

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 8:22 am

Thank you, I talked to him last night ,I have some knowledge owning a small machine shop and offered him some other ideas  about knurling bullets ,Seem's to be a standup guy and very helpful  .. like on here,, ,
 So the copper  acts as a  lube or is it the fact that the knurling process acts as a lube ?
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 8:34 am

Lead is so much softer than copper, and needs the lube, or you'd get terrible leading in the bore. Copper will still leave some copper fouling, but it's very small, and easily cleaned out.

Lead conicals are usually used with black powder, and the lube helps keep the fouling soft. This isn't a problem with BH 209.

For a modern inline that has to shoot conicals, because of state laws. You can't beat a copper bullet with BH 209. The brass Bloodline is another option, but brass is harder than copper, and a little more troublesome to get a good full bore fit, but certainly an option.

The Thor bullet I posted a link for is the easiest option. It comes in 4 sizes to fit different bores sizes. .500, .501, .502, and .503. Just send Terry an email asking for a sample pack. He'll send you one bullet in each size. Try them in your bore to find the best fit, and then you know what size to order. The bullets are made by Barnes for him, so terminal performance can't be beat. They aren't handled in any stores, so you need to order direct from him.

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Nitride finish barrel brush or not brush    May 19th 2015, 8:40 am

That answers the question we had about the one Barnes bullet we couldn't find on there web pg ,Its resold by Thor ,I will check in to it , Thank you For all the answers ,,,and help ,,
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