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 GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"

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conner
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 12:48 pm

Muley wrote:
Conner........What real Hawken was used as a model for the guns you sell?


In the early '70s in the shop at GRRW they had on loan 'Kit Carson's', 'Jim Bridger''s and one of 'Tobin's' rifles as well as several others from different collectors that Doc knew. Pictures, measurements, and full size prints (schematics) were made.

The prints that Track of the Wolf sells on these rifles are from GRRW, sold after closing the firm.

They had permission to take apart the Bridger rifle which surprised the smiths. At the breech end of this rifle it was missing several lands in the rifling, they thought done when built (probably the reamer slipped).

Carl Walker always told me "those old boys couldn't afford to throw away a mistake, they just fixed it and it went out the door" just like the Bridger rifle.

All these guns are now in the Jim Gordon Collection along with a dozen other famous Hawkens.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 3:02 pm

Very cool. Thanks.

Wish I could afford one.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:11 am

Muley wrote:
Very cool. Thanks.

Wish I could afford one.


Each model produced at GRRW had several originals firearms to copy, Doc or one of his smith's always knew someone with what was needed in personal collections. It didn't matter whether it was a half-stock or full-stock Hawken, a Leman or a Trapper Pistol, one would be found, prints made with all the measurements recorded and pictures taken.

Colorado mountain-man Mariano Medina's Hawken was on loan to the Loveland Library, stolen and recovered, then sent to the Colorado Historical Society for safe keeping (stolen from there several times and finally sold to the Gordon Collection. I got to handled it when in Loveland (Medina home) and Ed Trump (GRRW smith) found it when it was taken from the Historical Society location. In the 60's and 70's you could find Hawken and leman rifles for sale at gun shows or advertised in Shotgun News, some had been owned by some famous folks.They were expensive but under $10K today we would have to sell our homes to afford one at the $100K price range.

For an example of who carried a few of these guns see: http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/those.that.carried.htm
  and look at the price of a Leman Squirrel rifle in 1943 at: http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/page.lemans/leman.squirrel.rifle.htm 

For parts in one case "Blue Jacket" Sanders had castings made of an original Leman buttplate and triggerguard used on GRRW Lemans. I'm looking for that set of "Blues" Leman molds with his markers mark now, they disappeared after the firm closed, then castings were available for a period then gone again.

We have spent countless hours researching these guns on sale sheets & catalogs of Bannerman & Son as well as Collector Societies or a half dozen of these rifles offered from H.E. Leman. The more research done on their details the closer one gets to building a good reproduction of any of this gun.


Look at the detail on this Leman Indian Trade rifle found in Larry Ness' Collection : http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/page.schematic.htm  as time allows I can provide similar references.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:28 am

How accurate do you think the Don Stith kits are?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:52 am

I have seen Don's ads and studied the pictures but have never handled any of his wares. One of the GRRW.CA smith's said they had assembled a Hawken kit of Don's and had to really work on the trigger guard shape was all that was said? As long as Don has been offering his kits I would thing he has a good product, I haven't seen anything negative about the kits offered. I will probably contact him too for parts available as time goes on, some items are getting hard to find or limited supplies for building quality firearms?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 8:14 am

I had heard he had a few real Hawkens to copy for his kits, but i'm not sure how true that is.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 8:35 am

Neat information. Thanks for the links.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 13th 2016, 6:57 pm

Well, Tom sent the original GRRW rifle kit and I got it today.  

This will be built through Buck's GRRW CA assembled original 
GRRW gunsmiths. I won't try my hand at this one. It needs to 
be done right.

Wow. Just wow. I opened my box and found another inside. 
The second box was the original shipping box addressed 
from GRRW and dated from the 1970's. 



Inside, I found incredibly detailed original receipts and original letters that placed the original 
order and confirmed the order from GRRW. There was even a back order for a front sight. This 
included envelops with the old postage and USPS shipping date stamps. There were newspapers 
from the 1970s stuffing the box. There were original Hawken blue prints that have handwritten 
directions, art, and measurements. (I intend to frame one of these!) 

There was also an original GRRW catalog/flier and more.



Seriously, my last week is no where near as organized as this guy is from 1978. Amazing.
And, no musty smell. Stored in air-con.

I have not unwrapped, yet. I do not have tape to put it all back. 
I will open it when I can do it right.

But, everything is so together, I have no doubts. I can see the bright GRRW barrel through 
the plastic and held the ram rod.

This was so nice... I was a boy when this rifle kit was originally sold. Seeing those old 
stamps, the old catalog and all the other stuff put me back in my old friend's garages where 
we talked a big game about the guns we wanted to buy and swapped catalogs. (We had no 
money, but that did not stop us from dreaming.)

And, now I have one like it was the 1970s again!

I am so looking forward to seeing this rifle built. GRRW rides again! Thanks to a 
a little luck and Buck's GRRW CA efforts.

PS I can move this to another thread, if need be. Seemed relevant here? Let me know.

PPS Carl Walker, first GRRW employee and gunsmith. Buck has corralled him into GRRW CA 
in some capacity, I think.


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over the good fortune of others." 
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Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
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NMLRA


Last edited by Kentucky Colonel on May 14th 2016, 7:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 14th 2016, 6:51 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
The second box was the original shipping box addressed from GRRW and dated from the 1970's...... 


Inside, I found incredibly detailed original receipts and original letters that placed the original 
order and confirmed the order from GRRW. There was even a back order for a front sight. This 
included envelops with the old postage and USPS shipping date stamps. There were newspapers 
from the 1970s stuffing the box. There were original Hawken blue prints that have handwritten 
directions, art, and measurements. (I intend to frame one of these!) 

There was also an original GRRW catalog/flier and more.   Stored in air-con.

I have not unwrapped, yet. I do not have tape to put it all back. 
I will open it when I can do it right. I have no doubts. I can see the bright GRRW barrel through 
the plastic and held the ram rod.

I am so looking forward to seeing this rifle built. GRRW rides again! Thanks to a 
a little luck and Buck's GRRW CA efforts.

KC keep everything and DO NOT send any of the original packaging, pack everything in new boxes, new wrapping paper with bubble wrap (most of the firms like Fed Ex or UPS have supplies). You want to keep everything from your purchase, boxes, paperwork and anything from the original purchase in 1970. This way once the gun is completed you'll have pictures of the GRRW original kit and the original shipping items mentioned, plus the end results a completed GRRW rifle.

Guys the neat part of this subject is KC will have pictures of an original GRRW kit, all the original packaging and his new rifle we be built by the GRRW gunsmith that assembled the kit in 1970 in Doc Whites single car garage at the start of GRRW. GRRW gunsmith Carl Walker couldn't believe this kit was still in tack, most guys would have destroyed all the packaging and made an attempt at putting it together.

KC you have a neat purchase, good job.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 14th 2016, 7:29 am


The original GRRW employees from the 1970s 
(So cool when the rest of the country was into polyester leisure suits!)

"KC you have a neat purchase, good job."  king

"keep everything from your purchase" 

Good. I was wondering how I would handle the original box and stuff when I sent it to be built.

I have an extensive e-mail find/purchase trail to print out, Muley's original thread, and this thread to print. I may even break out my big boy camera. The cell phone stuff is good, but I may want to print a bigger picture some day and that needs more data/per image.

PICS OF ART AND STAINING DIRECTIONS FROM THE BLUE PRINTS
(still taken with a cell phone in uneven light. I will do better later)








Guys? Do you want to see more pics of this? I don't want to annoy anyone, but I am excited about this one.

"Carl Walker couldn't believe this kit was still in tack" 

Me, either. It is like a time capsule.

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"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
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Last edited by Kentucky Colonel on May 14th 2016, 8:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 14th 2016, 7:45 am

Quote :
@Kentucky Colonel wrote:

PPS Carl Walker, first GRRW employee and gunsmith. Buck has corralled him into GRRW CA 
in some capacity, I think.


Here's Carl Walker with the first rifle built (Leman Trade Rifle Ser. No.#L01 CA) by the new firm [GRRW.CA]. He will build the Colonial's kit as he was the one that sent this kit to the original owner back in 1970. Can't get any better than that folks.



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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 19th 2016, 8:14 am

NOTE: Muley! Please, DO NOT delete this thread! I need to print it and need more ink!




Blurry pic of art from the original rifle Blue Prints


The original American Long Rifle post on this kit for sale has been deleted. 

Not a tragedy as I have a LOT of documentation, but if you know of more 
places that talked about selling this kit? 

Please, let me know? 

Thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   October 13th 2016, 3:57 pm

Quote :


I have a J & S Hawken, .50 cal. - 32" barrel, 14 inch length of pull under construction at this time. This rifle is copied from one of the originals in the Jim Gordon Collection. Will be a slim rifle like its counterpart should be in the 8.75 to 9 lb. range.


With this rifle we have made since the first of the year (3) J & S Hawken Rifles - .62, .58 and .50 caliber, (2) Bridger Rifles - both .58 calibers, (1) Hawken 1/2 stock - .62 caliber, (!) NW Trade Gun - .62 caliber and (1) Trapper Pistol in .58 cal. Have a dozen guys now waiting their turn, pretty good for smith's old enough to belong to the "Old Farts Club".

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   March 7th 2017, 8:19 am

Good Morning folks,


Here's a heads up for you. I just updated the GRRW CA website at: http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/index.htm   As time allows I'll do the same with GRRW CA other location on the Internet.


Check out the  FIREARMS BUILT BY THIS PROJECT


Thank you for your time.

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