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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 5th 2016, 1:06 am

"At 100 yards, the velocity of this load diminishes to around 1,050 f.p.s. - with only about 450 foot-pounds of energy.  At most, 50 yards would be the maximum range I would shoot at deer with this rifle and load."


"For deer sized game, that's a minimum of 800 foot-pounds of retained energy at the distance of the target."

I am sitting here reading an article online and just had to laugh at this statement! A .50cal firing 90gr Olde Eynsford and a .490" round ball and saying its only good for 50 yards on deer size game :ROFL

I don't know about that! I shot that hog in the 175lb + range which is a real big deer by most standards, and that ball dropped the hog on the spot. When you deal with 90-110lb deer, there's not a whole lot of muscle/fat/heavy bone to break.

Pete sent me an email earlier today about a hunting show where the guy was shooting a .338 and it took 2 shots at 200 yards to finish it. Then the next hunt he uses a muzzle loader with a 250gr powerbelt and the bear drops on the spot.... Is the 250gr aerolite better performing that the .338?

It simply amazes me that folks try to use that minimum 800 ft lbs energy excuse to cleanly take game when they are loaded up with patched round ball.


WAGH! Now I just may have to talk my brother in law into using patched round balls this September! LOL
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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 5th 2016, 9:40 am

I recall only 700 ft.-pounds as once being a "standard" tossed around.  Even that doesn't make sense when a minimum 40 pound draw-weight at 28"(about 30 ft.-pounds.of energy at 40 yards) on a hunting bow satisfies the energy requirements in many states.  It's all about shot placement.

Perhaps the writer of that article should check out our frontiermuzzleloading forum.  He may need to write a follow-up article Laughing


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Last edited by Marty on July 8th 2016, 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added bow energy data))
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 5th 2016, 9:45 am

Just who is the "mastermind" who came up with the magic number of 800 ft-lbs. as the minimum for killing deer?
I'll bet none of the deer answered the questionnaire. Suspect

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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 5th 2016, 4:15 pm

Never bought into the 800-1,000 foot pounds stuff.  My Dad killed dozens of deer with a .30 carbine.

Put the bullet, conical or ball in the right place and the deer don't go far.    

Hogs can be much harder to kill than whitetail deer.   Expect a hog that is double lunged to go 200 yards after being shot.   Don't expect much of a blood trail.

Last evening i shot a 200 pound boar with a 250 grain SST from about 30 yards.  The hog squealed, took off and proceeded to run over 150 yards after being hit in both lungs.    

Few years ago Toby Bridges went on a crusade against patched round ball.  It cost him a sponsor.
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 5th 2016, 5:07 pm

I never did like the way "energy" was figured. From what I understand there is no consideration to the meplat which I believe is important, and a 50ca or larger ball is close to that.

I wish I could get in print what my mind is thinking, hard to articulate what I mean. (Old fart, old mind.) Maybe someone else can expand on the subject?

John
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 6th 2016, 5:10 pm

500 ft pounds is all that's needed, in books I've read
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 7th 2016, 7:13 am

Marty wrote:
I recall only 700 ft.-pounds as once being a "standard" tossed around.  Even that doesn't make sense when a minimum 40 pound draw-weight at 28" on a hunting bow satisfies the energy requirements in many states.  It's all about shot placement.

Perhaps the writer of that article should check out our frontiermuzzleloading forum.  He may need to write a follow-up article Laughing


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Unless you're shooting bullets with blades or you're bow hunting with field points, any comparison between an arrow and a bullet is irrelevant. Apples to oranges.

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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 7th 2016, 10:59 am

Unfortunately too many muzzleloading hunters try and take game beyond both their personal ability and the effective range of the gun......and when we do, we are our own worst enemy........but the same is true of many bow hunters and center fire rifle hunters. It's not always possible, but I think in all methods of hunting we are frequently too lazy to "hunt" and take shots at too great a distance rather than trying to get as close as possible.......my prayer before every hunt is "let my shot fly true and let the animal go down with a single shot".....however it is my responsibility to get as close as possible out of respect for the animal and good ethical hunting........nothing to me is more of a sickening feeling then wounding and loosing an animal.

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 8th 2016, 6:30 am

Excellent point lighthorseman.  Effective range and shot placement go hand-in-hand.


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p.s. Point well-noted Quinn".   My point was I simply don't dwell at all on energy...especially after seeing a hog brought down with an air rifle.
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 8th 2016, 9:43 pm

I'm wondering if any of the folks making statements reference the capability of a PRB to take game have ever considered how our Forefathers fed and protected their families?? But then again.....the only history some folks know is how many beers they drank yesterday....maybe!!
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 9th 2016, 6:13 am

I, too, have killed more than a few criters with RB at 5o to 75 yards.  My eyes do not allow 100 yard shots with irons, so I don't have any field data to chime in with. Still, based on the effects I have seen at 50 to 75, I have no doubt somebody with decent eyes any could kill any critter in North America with a 54. cal RB at 100 yards.  Though a fatally shot griz might stll eat you before he expired!

Having said that, I also think it is wise and right to use enough gun to do the job if the shot is not perfect.  In one lung and out the other will always kill.  But some dufus with a .223 making an accidental shoulder shot won't likely get a clean kill or maybe even retrieve his game.  Use enough gun, but don't have to be a 458 Win mag.

You do have to know your limiations and that of you gun/bullet.
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PostSubject: Re: .50cal round ball VS deer   July 19th 2016, 3:54 pm

Just calculated ballistics for my last .50 cal deer kill.  Eighty yards, double lung, deer ran 40 yards.  Initial velocity 1400 fps.  On target, 989 fps and 393 ft#
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