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Hilljack

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PostSubject: Fantasy Rifle   September 7th 2016, 6:47 pm

The term is applied to rifles that don't follow a specific school or design and don't have any surviving examples, but could it have been a real possibility....The answer is yes....It is based on an English half stock at or around the turn of the 1700 to the early 1830's...I like the feel of the English rifles and shotguns and they work well for my build which is basically a stump with arms and legs...This has been a demanding build hand inletting a swamped barrel is an interesting and time consuming job but has been satisfying...

As I get older it is harder to use the rifle I used 15 to 20 year ago ( 1 1/8 x 1", 35 inches long, and weighed 12 to 14 lbs.) 40 cal for competition, so I built this one which is a Colrain "A" profile, 40 cal, 38" long, under rib is a folded steel shotgun rib, custom reverse set trigger and the trigger guard is an english shotgun with a early hawken rear soldered on....The rifle holds beautifully and is not tiring...I will be shooting it tomorrow for a sight in and test run....I like shooting new rifles in the white to test them out...And then if all goes well finish them and with this one would be to pour a nose cap, stain and finish coat and of course brown the barrel and furniture....







Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions
YMHS
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 7th 2016, 7:11 pm

Did you create that stock from a plain block of wood?
Ron

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Hilljack

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 7th 2016, 7:36 pm

Yes, I have a complete set of pctures for the build. Would you like to see them?

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 8:08 am

Hilljack wrote:
Yes, I have a complete set of pctures for the build. Would you like to see them?

Hilljack
Yes, I would like to see them! I will now send you my email via private message.

Cheers,
Ron

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 10:20 am

Hilljack

I have considered the American half stock plains rifle more of a copy of the English half stock sporting rifles than the oft times suggested Yeagers. Which lock did you use? Love to see it with the nose cap poured and stained and finish.......really like what you've done so far.

Catlin's painting of Col. Dodge shows a rifle that I have often wondered if it is an English sporting rifle or an early plains style rifle. Some of have suggested a "Hawken", however the shape of the stock doesn't convince me. As Dodge seems to have been a man of some means, you might have ordered a London built rife, or.................stock shape also suggest possibly "Pennsylvania". IMHO circa 1834

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 11:22 am

yeah doesnt look like a hawken. It has a fancy sporty shape like english rifles IMO.
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Hilljack

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 12:45 pm

Your absolutely correct it is an early English style, this would have come over with an Englishman of the second order (second son) they would get nothing or very little, well they would travel to the colonies to seek their fortune, but they would bring with them some of the arms they had to help them...

These did exist but only in small numbers, years ago I was talking to a friend about the styles of rifles and I mentioned I wanted something different and go along with my persona...We discussed my background and that my grandparents came over from Scotland in the early 1900's...So he recommended that English rifles would fit perfectly and that got the ball rolling...much of the Hawkens and early rifles suggest that style....

The lock I used is a late English lock.... the same as Manton or Egg would have used....And I agree with Lighthorseman with the picture the has all the earmarks of English influence...There are several examples out on the internet of the English rifles....They are a comfortable style especially with big bore rifles...I have made several flinters and cappers in the 62 and 72 cal and I would much rather shoot one of them in comparison to some of the plains rifles, due to the drop and Butt configurations...

Just got through shooting the rifle for the first time...Literally the first 5 shots, these were shot offhand at 25 yards, first shot was low and the next 4 were in a group....There was no sight adjustment, it is as I assembled the rifle.



Using a .400 ball, .017 pillow ticking, 40 grains 3f Swiss, Null B priming powder....

Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions

YMHS
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 1:01 pm

Great grouping right out of the "starting gate". Lloyd Moler who built my mid 18th smooth rifle has a English sporting rifle he offered to sell, that I believe is in a .54 cal. It is, if I remember correctly a full stock rifle, so as portrayed, an earlier gun. It is a real pleasure to hold and wish I would have discovered it earlier in my fur trade days...........wouldn't have worked for a "free trapper" impression but certainly would have for a young adventurer, especially if the persona was based on a "British" adventurer. Lloyd blued the barrel an left the lock in the white (polished). The furniture was all brass. A really beautiful gun..as i believe yours will be as well..........great effort!

Your persona?

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Hilljack

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 2:02 pm

My persona is that of the second son of a Scottish Nobleman that had decide to travel to the colonies to seek my fortune and adventure...Moved down the great lakes into the Northwest Territories...And that actually follows the original line of travel my grandparents did form Scotland to Chicago and then to California/Oregon area....Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions....

YMHS
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 6:58 pm

I started doing a "Scottish" landed gentry, but went off in the direction of mid-18th century "Sir William Johnson" type impression...who was actually Irish. The role fits better with our program, if I ever get it off the ground. As to fantasy guns and equipment...here's mine. The idea is loosely on the Concept that Moravian craftsman built the smooth rifle and the bag is a combined effort between German craftsmanship and Iroquois/Mohawk traditional design.



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Hilljack

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 7:24 pm

Very nice smooth rifle...And you have the really good pieces to match...Mine tends toward the utilitarian pieces....And my first love is competitive shooting....Then have some fun at Rondys for a few years I shot at Friendship...

YMHS
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 8th 2016, 10:05 pm

Thanks......the guys here are probably tired of seeing it! Laughing 
I wanted a "Euro" hunting bag.........so. The first bag I built was from a stirrup fender, for the body and the stirrup leather for the strap and a piece of buffalo hide for the flap........very utilitarian. Very Happy

My my main interest has always been hunting.

My current hunting garb is modeled after this,(circa 1760) but with a brown waistcoat and brown canvas leggings.

but I can also go with long hunter, in as Washington described "Indian clothing" brain tanned leggings, moccasins, long shirt and hunting frock.

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 9th 2016, 5:30 am

Nice post, Hilljack. Thanks for starting this one.

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 9th 2016, 4:25 pm

I maintain that there is no such thing as a "fantasy" rifle.  These guns were never, ever built using a cookie cutter as the P/C, H/C and "authorities" want us to believe.  No two guns built in the past were identical so which one of the many guns built by 18th and 19th century builders were the "authentic" ones?  

To be sure, building a gun and passing it off as a legitimate, historical copy of Dickert when it isn't anything like a Dickert is one thing.  But if one builds an interpretation of a gun from that period, it's an H/C gun and NOT a fantasy.  If a gun is built to look like a particular one that still exists, That's called a REPLICA and that's all it is regardless of the beauty and craftsmanship pf the piece.
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 26th 2016, 10:17 pm

Most modern shooters don't have a clue as to just how good some of these rifles will shoot because they don't know how to use standard barrel sights! I've shot all sorts of stuff over 65 years and I do believe I've had more fun shooting these than any other thing! The flinter is 50 caliber and caplock is a 54! Both very accurate!

FlPerc by Sharps Man, on Flickr
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 26th 2016, 10:44 pm

Beautiful Hawken rifles......I particularly like the full stock!..........and you're right about accuracy.

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 27th 2016, 11:04 am

Sharpsman wrote:
Most modern shooters don't have a clue as to just how good some of these rifles will shoot because they don't know how to use standard barrel sights! I've shot all sorts of stuff over 65 years and I do believe I've had more fun shooting these than any other thing! The flinter is 50 caliber and caplock is a 54! Both very accurate!

FlPerc by Sharps Man, on Flickr



Those two rifles are beautiful.  Being a longrifle addict I really like the fullstock, even short fullstocks.  This rifle is probably my favorite; it's barrel is only 36", short for a late Lancaster, .45 X 13/16"; but it was what I wanted.  It has been a great deer rifle all these years.  A rubber stopper is in the muzzle, my indicator of being loaded.

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 27th 2016, 12:09 pm

Hanshi wrote:
Sharpsman wrote:
Most modern shooters don't have a clue as to just how good some of these rifles will shoot because they don't know how to use standard barrel sights! I've shot all sorts of stuff over 65 years and I do believe I've had more fun shooting these than any other thing! The flinter is 50 caliber and caplock is a 54! Both very accurate!

FlPerc by Sharps Man, on Flickr



Those two rifles are beautiful.  Being a longrifle addict I really like the fullstock, even short fullstocks.  This rifle is probably my favorite; it's barrel is only 36", short for a late Lancaster, .45 X 13/16"; but it was what I wanted.  It has been a great deer rifle all these years.  A rubber stopper is in the muzzle, my indicator of being loaded.




There's just ???something about???....those long stocks!! Laughing Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 27th 2016, 12:35 pm

Sure like that Hawken. Lefty, .54, and caplock. Perfect.

Who built it?

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 28th 2016, 9:35 am

Muley wrote:
Sure like that Hawken. Lefty, .54, and caplock. Perfect.

Who built it?
Tom Watson over in Georgia! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 28th 2016, 10:10 am

If I ever win Powerball i'm going to offer you more for it than you can refuse. pirat


Tom Watson the golfer? Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 28th 2016, 12:23 pm

Hanshi wrote:
Sharpsman wrote:
Most modern shooters don't have a clue as to just how good some of these rifles will shoot because they don't know how to use standard barrel sights! I've shot all sorts of stuff over 65 years and I do believe I've had more fun shooting these than any other thing! The flinter is 50 caliber and caplock is a 54! Both very accurate!

FlPerc by Sharps Man, on Flickr



Those two rifles are beautiful.  Being a longrifle addict I really like the fullstock, even short fullstocks.  This rifle is probably my favorite; it's barrel is only 36", short for a late Lancaster, .45 X 13/16"; but it was what I wanted.  It has been a great deer rifle all these years.  A rubber stopper is in the muzzle, my indicator of being loaded.


That's a 'beaut' as well! REMEMBER.....you only have to satisfy one person!

YOURSELF!!

Laughing :suhlute t up
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy Rifle   September 28th 2016, 3:05 pm

What a great post!!  Good looking rifles right from the get go!!

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