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 Conner....what is it?

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lighthorseman

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PostSubject: Conner....what is it?   March 15th 2017, 7:05 pm

Conner...or anyone else who wants to comment....what is it Col. Dodge is holding. We may have briefly remarked on this in the past, but I wanted to bring some expertise into the question.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 15th 2017, 8:12 pm

Another look might help. 



Gonna guess Harper's Ferry rifle as this is an artist's drawing and not wholly accurate. Did I win?
Also, Col. Dodge was a very short man. His unit expected the men to provide their own rifle so it could be just about anything.

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Last edited by Kentucky Colonel on March 15th 2017, 9:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 15th 2017, 8:53 pm

The black and white is actually labeled wrong as Catlin accompanied the 1rst Dragoons and their expedition of the plains in 34. Here you see Dodge in the basic same clothing.


AS regimental commander and an officer, he dressed, outfitted and armed himself. However he likely dressed the same way as commanding officer of the U.S. Mounted Ranger Battalion.
Notice he's carrying the same rifle.....and not the regulation and issued 1833 Hall carbine.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 21st 2017, 8:44 am




.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 21st 2017, 8:59 pm

Conner...I'm a bit confused. So do you think Catlin was taking artistic license and he was likely (like the KC said) is holding a HF? Seems to me pretty specific with two barrel pins/wedges with "fancy" scutcheons ....look like hunter's star shaped and curled brass trigger guard. If I knew for sure Dodge carried a 1803 HF....that would make it easy. One could/may also surmise he has a brace of 1807 HF pistols.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 6:51 am

@lighthorseman wrote:
Conner...I'm a bit confused. So do you think Catlin was taking artistic license and he was likely (like the KC said) is holding a HF? Seems to me pretty specific with two barrel pins/wedges with "fancy" scutcheons ....look like hunter's star shaped and curled brass trigger guard. If I knew for sure Dodge carried a 1803 HF....that would make it easy. One could/may also surmise he has a brace of 1807 HF pistols.

I would think Catlin did as you have said, when you look at most of his work as well as Miller's figures and accessories were not very clear. Yet the landscapes had good details, that was what they were known for in their home lands - landscape artists.

I would go with the 1803 HF rifle and 1807 pistols.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 7:46 am

@lighthorseman wrote:
Conner...or anyone else who wants to comment....what is it Col. Dodge is holding.
A hat?
Ron clown

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 11:42 am

@RonC wrote:
@lighthorseman wrote:
Conner...or anyone else who wants to comment....what is it Col. Dodge is holding. A hat?
Ron clown

Look at pictures of Davey Crockett's hats or some of the others, its almost a top hat in height with a little larger brim. I've seen them before and "The Mad Hatter" from Canada makes them.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 2:37 pm

conner wrote:
@lighthorseman wrote:
Conner...I'm a bit confused. So do you think Catlin was taking artistic license and he was likely (like the KC said) is holding a HF? Seems to me pretty specific with two barrel pins/wedges with "fancy" scutcheons ....look like hunter's star shaped and curled brass trigger guard. If I knew for sure Dodge carried a 1803 HF....that would make it easy. One could/may also surmise he has a brace of 1807 HF pistols.

I would think Catlin did as you have said, when you look at most of his work as well as Miller's figures and accessories were not very clear. Yet the landscapes had good details, that was what they were known for in their home lands - landscape artists.

I would go with the 1803 HF rifle and 1807 pistols.
Thanks Conner!.......I have another question for you. I have "as I have said before" a GRRW Indian trade rifle. I didn't put the typical Leman style patch box on it. Now understanding it is later than the 1840's, would it be unreasonable or can it be documented that a heavy short barreled Pennsylvania style rifle (not a Jaeger) made it way west......or does my gun simply look too much like a Leman and disqualified for an earlier "fur trade era" rifle?

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 3:13 pm

Ron,

Yes...very good! cheers Although you'd be surprised how many folks think that's for watering your horse.

typically when Hollywood portrays an old grizzled mountain man they often do it with a top hat...which sorta stereotypes the hat. The very hat Dodge carries is the very reason for the fur trade......let me show a couple examples......first mine with my "Federal Period saber"


Here's a modern rendition of Lewis' "14 Kentucky volunteers" and thier clothing and equipment for the Corps of Discovery.

Here's a contemporary painting:
Here's another of 1830's of Karl Bodmer with Prince Max

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 7:15 pm

That is a Civil War unit, eh?

Heck. Now, I need to look for a hat.

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 22nd 2017, 8:27 pm

affraid Laughing Laughing .......unit about 60 years earlier! Meriweather Lewis called for Kentucky volunteers who were outfitted with drab "round about" jackets" military overalls "round hats" or what we call top hats and Lewis refurbished 1792 contract rifles...with accoutrements. The expedition started 1804. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Conner....what is it?   March 23rd 2017, 9:28 am

@lighthorseman wrote:
Thanks Conner!.......I have another question for you. I have "as I have said before" a GRRW Indian trade rifle. I didn't put the typical Leman style patch box on it. Now understanding it is later than the 1840's, would it be unreasonable or can it be documented that a heavy short barreled Pennsylvania style rifle (not a Jaeger) made it way west......or does my gun simply look too much like a Leman and disqualified for an earlier "fur trade era" rifle?

I would change the trigger guard and call it an early plains rifle. Lemans built the Conestoga riles and just plain heavy barreled rifles for the Indian trade in Canada before they got contracts with our government with the Leman Trade Rifle. I'll find you some pictures of some of the trigger guards.

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