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 Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters

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patocazador

patocazador

Number of posts : 5852
Age : 76
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 6th 2017, 7:45 pm

Some cases are difficult to find and have to be made by forming other common cases to the desired caliber. Some involve just shooting a live round in the gun as is the case with an "improved" cartridge. Others involve necking the parent case up or down to accommodate the new caliber like converting .30-06 cases to .35 Whelen.

Some, like the 7-30 Waters, need to be resized by necking down a .30-30 case and improved by firing the round in the gun.
Below is a sequence showing the progression from .30-30 to 7-30 Waters.

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters 7-30_c10

From L to R: .30-30 cartridge, .30-30 fired case (empty), Necked down .30-30 case to 7mm in the full-length resizing die, Necked down and fire-formed case (now a 7-30 Waters case), Reloaded formed case with a 120 grain Barnes-X bullet.




Below is the T/C Contender in 7-30 Waters caliber. Not such a great rifle cartridge but a very good pistol cartridge for hunting deer and hogs. It is a better choice than .30-30 in both a pistol and a rifle due to the greater powder capacity and (in the pistol) a more aerodynamic bullet since it doesn't have to have a flat nose to avoid accidental discharge in the original tubular magazine.


Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Conten10



Probably no one else on the forum is doing this sort of reforming but it's easy and mandatory if you have a gun that shoots an obsolete or hard-to-obtain cartridge.

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Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
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mark1945
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mark1945

Male Number of posts : 202
Age : 74
Location : Portland Texas
Registration date : 2015-08-20

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 7th 2017, 9:40 am

Bob
I have been doing that for years , 8mm/06 and 7x30 waters , 22k hornet .I think I actually have 15 pieces of 7x30 waters real brass all the rest I made. Had my 8mm/06 since back in the late 60s think someone finally started mfg brass for it a few years ago. My 7x30 is a Contender also 14 in with factory brake Have shot many hogs coyotes and coons with it love that caliber.
Mark

_________________
CVA 50 cal Mountain Rifle         Pedersoli Quigley 45/70          Pedratti  45/90  sharps                             
CVA 50 cal Mountain Pistol        Pedersoli Quigley 45/120        Lyman Great Plains 54 cal Flintlock
2 CVA 45 cal  Kentucky Rifles    Pedersoli Kodiak Safari 72 cal  Pietta 1858 Remington New Army 44 cal
Cabelas 58 cal Hawken             Colt Navy 36 cal                     Pietta 1863 Remington pocket rev 31 cal
Pedersoli Kodiak 58 cal             CVA 58 Cal. Mountain Rifle      Classic Arms Co 44 Cal New Orleans Ace
CVA 45 Cal Derringer               TC Renegade 54cal                 Navy Arms Co. Pietta 12 gauge double
Pedersoli 12 gauge double        Traditions Crockett 32 cal        2 Traditions Mountain Rifles 50 cal
Pietta 1851 Conf Navy 44
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Grimord



Male Number of posts : 47
Age : 64
Location : Salem, CT
Registration date : 2015-01-02

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 8th 2017, 6:18 am

I have been reforming cases for several of the wildcats that I own for years.  I have to form my own brass for the .256 Winchester Magnum, the .338-06 and the .375 Winchester Hybrid and 445 Super Magnum.  Some, like the 256, require several dies to form, and some can be made with just one pass thru the sizing die.  Wildcat cartridges are fun to play with.
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patocazador

patocazador

Number of posts : 5852
Age : 76
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 8th 2017, 7:18 am

"Wildcat cartridges are fun to play with."


They sure are. The only Contender shells I have to form is the 7-30 and .357/.44 Bain & Davis but I had a hankering for a 6.5 JDJ and a .309 JDJ at one time.
My rifle "wildcats" are 3 Ackley improved cartridges. That extra volume really helps.

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Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
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Marty
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Marty

Male Number of posts : 3724
Age : 63
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 9th 2017, 8:28 am

pat', when you fire-form the case do you use a standard, reduced, or max powder charge?
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mark1945
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mark1945

Male Number of posts : 202
Age : 74
Location : Portland Texas
Registration date : 2015-08-20

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 9th 2017, 9:30 am

Ive always been told to use a reduced load , but Ive always just put whatever load I planned on using in the case and have never had a problem. I could never understand why a reduced load would be called for if its gonna blow the case out to the chamber shape same as a full charge would.

_________________
CVA 50 cal Mountain Rifle         Pedersoli Quigley 45/70          Pedratti  45/90  sharps                             
CVA 50 cal Mountain Pistol        Pedersoli Quigley 45/120        Lyman Great Plains 54 cal Flintlock
2 CVA 45 cal  Kentucky Rifles    Pedersoli Kodiak Safari 72 cal  Pietta 1858 Remington New Army 44 cal
Cabelas 58 cal Hawken             Colt Navy 36 cal                     Pietta 1863 Remington pocket rev 31 cal
Pedersoli Kodiak 58 cal             CVA 58 Cal. Mountain Rifle      Classic Arms Co 44 Cal New Orleans Ace
CVA 45 Cal Derringer               TC Renegade 54cal                 Navy Arms Co. Pietta 12 gauge double
Pedersoli 12 gauge double        Traditions Crockett 32 cal        2 Traditions Mountain Rifles 50 cal
Pietta 1851 Conf Navy 44
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patocazador

patocazador

Number of posts : 5852
Age : 76
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 9th 2017, 9:35 am

I reduce it by 10-15%. The case before improving has less volume. If you use a max load, pressures could get too high.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
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gemihur

gemihur

Male Number of posts : 18
Age : 61
Location : Think twice, shoot once
Registration date : 2012-12-04

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyMarch 27th 2018, 6:57 pm

patocazador, the pressures will actually be reduced by the fire-forming process. The pressures needed to force the shoulder forward and the case walls straighter will alleviate some of the backthrust that would be pushing against the breechface.  It is recommended to reduce loads for fire-forming but if you want a fully formed, sharp shouldered case, use a standard load and a heavier bullet than you planned on... say 140 gr.
note: more people have been brought to the contender witnessing what the 7-30 Waters can do than any other chambering.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 597
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyApril 18th 2018, 11:30 pm

Never owned the 309 JDJ but I have owned the 6.5 JDJ and shot some deer with it. I dont have one anymore but a friend of mine still has his. We bought them together. I still load for his and forming the brass out of the 225 Winchester cases was fairly simple. He has taken an elk with his. I like the round ok but JD made some claims about the round I never found to be true. Both my friend and myself tested it several times and could not get the bullet drop he claimed at 200 yards.

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John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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McClura

McClura

Male Number of posts : 6
Age : 66
Location : Oklahoma
Registration date : 2015-12-31

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyMay 7th 2019, 8:51 am

I load for my two 7-30 Waters and never could see the need to waste bullets and powder when fireforming. I take my 30-30 brass, run through the 7-30 sizer, load regular loads that I hunt with and shoot silhouette with and use them. I have killed more deer with fire forming loads than not and they shoot just as good, ever on the steel shoots that I never wanted to waste good bullets and powder.
The 7-30 Waters was the first Contender I got in 1992. It was the Contender Hunter package, 12" barrel with factory break, TC scope and zippered pouch, all in one package. Been shooting it all of these years and never had any problems with it. Taken deer, hogs, coyotes and a couple of porcupines in TX when hog hunting.
Great round and fun to load.

Mike

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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 203
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyMay 7th 2019, 3:37 pm

I have a 35-30. Shoot a 30-30, then run the case through the 35-30 die. I found it less expensive to get 30 caliber balls or even wax "bullets" just to get the case to fire form.
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyMay 7th 2019, 3:46 pm

I hope Bob is ok. I've sent emails a month or so ago with zero response. I know hes on other forums and have not seen anything.
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bronko22000



Male Number of posts : 59
Age : 65
Location : NE Pennsylvania
Registration date : 2016-03-22

Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters Empty
PostSubject: Re: Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters   Case-forming .30-30 shells to 7-30 Waters EmptyMay 22nd 2019, 10:06 am

I fire formed 30-30 brass years ago for my 7-30 Waters for my Contender.  Great little cartridge and took a couple deer with it.  But as usual, due to a brain cramp, I went and traded it in on something. Don't remember what.  I just got the urge to take up handgun hunting again and got me an Encore in .243 Win.
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