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Smokin' Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 19th 2017, 6:48 am

Hey BigCountry, let us know about your experience after your tour ( maybe with a pic or two also) and what rifle you decide on.

You mentioned your barrel length decision.  I just finished a 38" Isaac Haines and a 46" Fowler.  It's kind of funny but they both pull up to your shoulder just fine.  You really don't notice a lot of difference.

Good luck on your choice!

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BigCountry



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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 19th 2017, 7:04 am

I will definitely keep everyone posted. I have had several phone conversations with them. They seem like nice people. Only reason i want a shorter barrrel is bc of being able to maneuver it well out of a treestand. I will be getting my barrel in a 1-48 twist which ive been told already it will have to be custom ordered. I have handled a .45cal late lancaster rifle that was a flintlock. could have bought it for less than half of what it cost new.  rifle was under a year old. But im not crazy about a .45 for hunting.  The guy used it for a reenactment rifle. it hand everything you could imagine on it. But i elected to pass.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 19th 2017, 9:30 am

Randy
I agree with you about quality of the locks whether flintlock or percussion, its all about workmenship if an assembled kit or a factory lock. Some of the worst locks sold early on in the reproduction field were the T/C flintlocks (bad frizzens).
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Side Note:
You may have heard of Ron Long (Long Locks), a good friend, I owned a mountainman/muzzleloading shop in Northern Colorado. We (Ron and two others) started the Colorado State Muzzleloading Association Squirrel Shoot that got the whole country interested in this event and copied by many. Now in its 44 year of being held in the same location. This is for .40 caliber or smaller rifles with many suppliers providing prices for the event, usual value of prizes from sources were in the $5-6K range. Long was one of top shooters in the world having brought home Gold in matches entered in several of the Muzzleloading Olympics events here and in other countries.
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I gave a T/C flintlock to Ron, he liked the coil spring design, did an action job on it and reharden the frizzen which improved this lock 90%. Now fast with excellent sparks. This lock was put on one of the prize rifles given to the shoot mentioned.

The prizes for this shoot was done in blanket shoot style, several looked at the T/C and moved on to another prize because of the rifles reputation. Once taken from the remaining prizes we loaded the rifle and the winner shot the rifle getting everyone's attention as how fast the ignition was.

Like Randy said its all about good ignition, after this test we would send lock frizzens to either Ron or GRRW in Roosevelt UT to have them reharden before selling them. Problem solved, wrote to several of the larger less expensive makers about the issues of their frizzens (went no where).
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Jack Gardner is a friend that worked with us when still in business (made a trade one time of Long locks, triggers, breech plugs, Douglas barrels and pre carved stocks - enough for 14 -15 complete rifles. Got back 7 - 8 rifles in the white, these guns Jack had someone assemble and did a sloppy job. Jack in those days was hard to contact and not paying attention to what was going on just before getting out of the business.

I took Jack and Freddie Harris (his stock maker) along with the Director of the DOW from MS on their first buffalo hunt - that's another story. Jack has always been a true Southern Gentleman, God Bless him.
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I have never shot any of the new TVM rifles, but have talked to a few that own them and they where pleased. They have a nice website that those that haven't visited need to at: http://www.tennesseevalleymuzzleloading.com/  They have build a totally clean and organized operation when compared to the old firm. That's wonderful, it sure needed help at the end.
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BigCountry
Looking at some of the firms that were around when compared to those who have survived over the years they have improved a great deal making better products for their price ranges.

I have had 42 inch barrels, they look nice but make hunting harder over one shorter, I'm like you, my longest rifle is now 36 inches long. Have made a couple of custom black powder builders get upset when we cut their fine work down to a hunting length, sorry guys.

My family have been collectors for more than a hundred years of antique weapons (edged or shootable) along with household goods to whatever. The last grouping was (have had several large collections of guns) a large firearms collections numbering 400 long guns and handguns, most in NRA Excellent Condition. At my age and kids that have no interest (freekin' tree huggers) the wife and myself decided to sell them rather than have our kids give them away for nothing. It took us 2 - 3 years of gun shows to move out the last group of firearms I wasn't interested in. Keeping only flintlocks guns of NRA Excellent to Fine Conditions of 85% or better. They are all shootable flinters (we use light charges do to age of weapon and old metals used - and some are of the 42 inch or longer lengths).
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Randy and BigCountry thank you for taking part with this conversations. cowyboy hatoff

Buck

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Randy Johnson



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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 19th 2017, 6:53 pm

I have never been a gun builder so I am only familiar with Long's Locks through ads and articles in the Buckskin Report. If I remember correctly he was machining all the internal parts as opposed to having them cast and polished. Roller did the same, and I have a cap gun I keep for sentimental purposes that has Roller lock and triggers along with a Large barrel.
My first flintlock rifle was one of Freddie Harrison's early ones. Bought it at DGW when I stopped by on my way home from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana. It had the best finish I have ever seen on a piece of wood. Style wise it didn't hold a candle to Freddie's later guns.
Home by the way is Connersville, Indiana.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 20th 2017, 6:19 am

Freddie and Jack were a pair, met them at Ft. DeChartre in IL years ago, we were eating fried buffalo and fed them supper. They loved the taste of the meat, told them about hunting buffalo and they were hooked for a hunt.

We set a date to meet in Wallace KS, first thing Freddie wanted to know was "is there a State (liquor) Store in that town". Told them there are two motels, its a small wide spot in the road, don't know. Jack said he thought Freddie called a head and picked the one that had a liquor store next door. Man those southern boys do like Jack Daniels, sure made the owners of that store's day when they went in there.

Fun guys when we hunted together - another story. Freddie had several very nice rifles he had built, Jack was using one of them both in .62 caliber one percussion the other a flinter.

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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 20th 2017, 6:57 am

im a firm believer that two rifles that are the same except one is a flinter and the other is a precission, the flinter will have a little more consistant accuracy. now to make the precussion the same as the flinter in consistant accuracy all one has to do do is drill a tiny vent hole into the powder chamber just infront of the drum. then they will be both consistant in accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 23rd 2017, 2:20 pm

Percussions are simple and relatively foolproof.  And, yes, I do know there are many fools out there that are a new strain of fool.  But if you simply learn and listen a little it works out just fine.  Flints, on the other hand, require more attention to get the same reliability as a capgun.  I prefer flinters but do have both type and like them all.
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BigAl52
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 23rd 2017, 7:34 pm

Im not accurrate with either one but I sure have fun trying. I have no preference in one or the other. I own both and Im like Hanshi I like both.

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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 7:49 am

My first shot from a flintlock went into the ground in front of the target backstop. It seems that I held my follow through just for the flash in the pan, but dropped the muzzle before the ball left the barrel.
It took about 2 visits to the range to stop reacting to the flash in the pan.
Now, I have more fun shooting flintlock than I do percussion. Oh, I still enjoy percussion firearms, but the flintlock gives me a stronger connection to a more distant past. 
Ron

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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 8:02 am

one way to improve accuracy with a round ball rifle is use medium weight pure linen tight weave cloth for the patching material. dont precut the patches. lube the cloth and set the ball almost a 1/4 inch deep into the muzzle then cut off the patching material at the muzzle with a straight razor or really sharp patching knife. use reasonable powder loads and dont try to make the rifle a magnum. you also will find when you recover these pure linen patches that they are not round in shape, they are square. square patches shoot much more accurate than round ones. boy did i just open up a discussion. it is true, if you must use precut patches, make them out of the linen i suggested and make them square. same diam. as the round ones but square. your accuracy will greatly improve. using this method i took a white tail doe at 170 yards with a 45 cal round ball gun and i hit her in the very spot i was aiming for. the load was 100 grains of 2f and a 1/60 twist barrel. round ball guns either flint or precussion can be very very accurate at even longer ranges. lewis and clark would take antelope to 300 yards with theirs. to show from history how accurate the flinter round ball guns can be. the first shot fired in the battle of new orleans against the brits was 200 and 11 yards a american named morgan did it off hand and put the ball through the head of a british officer. im sure he used pure linen patches and cut it off at the muzzle as they all did in those days. around 3500 brits died that day. and only 11 americans. none of the brits got closer than 98 yards to the americans. most of those died of head shots. if the americans could do accuracy that good in those days then we can also.  if we load and shoot like they did. also use round balls only 5 thousands under bore size, not 10 thousands under. hope this helps some to better accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 8:22 am

@strong eagle wrote:
you also will find when you recover these pure linen patches that they are not round in shape, they are square.

Huh....  I've been cutting at the muzzle for decades, and all I recover are octagonal.
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Hanshi



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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 8:53 am

I precut patches from from .020" mattress ticking and .025" denim and have fired quite a few round ones; I've seen no difference in the accuracy of either.  Rifling in some barrels can be quite deep.  My radius grooved barrels have .016" rifling and most of the square grooved ones are around .010".  Thicker patches compress into the grooves better helping seal the bore and prevent gas cutting.
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strong eagle



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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 2:44 pm

they are square with the 4 edges nicked off. i can see how they could be taken  for octagon. their are many good patching materials, even tight woven hemp. i find linen to be consistant and never ever burned through or come apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 4:30 pm

Actually, I sometimes "nip" off the corners, too.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Percussion vs Flintlock    September 24th 2017, 4:33 pm

@Hanshi wrote:
Percussions are simple and relatively foolproof.  And, yes, I do know there are many fools out there that are a new strain of fool.  But if you simply learn and listen a little it works out just fine.  Flints, on the other hand, require more attention to get the same reliability as a capgun.  I prefer flinters but do have both type and like them all.

Agreed.....

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