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 Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?

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rowdyjoe

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PostSubject: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 2:50 pm

Well, it arrived this afternoon with the postman.  The outside looks even better than the pictures.  It does NOT need bluing/browning.  The finish on both the barrel and the stock look great.  The brass could use a little polish but, it's in very good condition.

Problems:
1.  The clean out screw in the bolster is frozen and the head is stripped. 

2.  I don't have the right size nipple wrench yet but, I suspect the nipple is in the same condition as the screw in the bolster.  I've ordered two stainless nipples.  

3.  The set trigger is not working.  The rear trigger does not move at all so, can't set the front trigger.  However, the front trigger is working.  The pull is a bit heavier than I expected but, it works. 

4.  The barrel had some rust in it but, I think I've got that cleaned up.  It took about a dozen patches and some Break-Free and RB-17 to get 'er done but, the patches are coming out clean.  I think there's still a little crap at the bottom and I've got it soaking in RB-17 right now. 

5.  I can't see down the barrel very well by shinning a light down it  but, I don't fee any rough spots when running a a patch through it.  Once I get the bolster screw or the nipple out I may be able to get some light in there from behind. (?)

6.  Haven't checked the twist rate yet because I don't have the right jag.  I've ordered it along with other "tools" and they are no the way. 

I'm happy to have it and looking forward to making some smoke.


Last edited by rowdyjoe on June 5th 2017, 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 3:03 pm

Boil a pan of water and soak the nipple end of the barrel in it. Hot water will help unfreeze stuck nipples. The clean out screw on the other hand, I really never pull them out. That's a hole from when they drill the drum out and have to plug it up. If you can't get it out, its not a huge concern.

This will be of great help to try and  get your triggers working properly! Some guys adjustment so only the front trigger is the only operational trigger.
https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t8218-1989-cva-users-manual
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 3:35 pm

Excellent Jonathan.  Thanks very much.  I was a bit concerned about the clean out screw so, that relieves my worry.  I'd like to replace that ugly stripped screw head with a good one but, I can wait a while.  Smile 
When I get my #11 nipple wrench I'll try the hot water trick.  In the mean time, I'll keep some penetrating oil on it.  My #10 wrench for my revolver is just a tiny tad too small.  Sad

I thought the trigger issue might be an adjustment problem and the instructions you sent will make me feel more confident while working on it.  Hope I can get that worked out.

By the way ....I can see the number "87" stamped in front of the serial no.   Do you think that was the mfg. date?
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 3:39 pm

OH, almost forgot to mention ....my order of Anti-Rust and Patch Lube arrived today.  Thanks.  Great service and fast shipping.  I'm looking forward to putting it to use. 

Garry
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 4:06 pm

@FrontierGander wrote:
Boil a pan of water and soak the nipple end of the barrel in it. Hot water will help unfreeze stuck nipples. The clean out screw on the other hand, I really never pull them out. That's a hole from when they drill the drum out and have to plug it up. If you can't get it out, its not a huge concern.

This will be of great help to try and  get your triggers working properly! Some guys adjustment so only the front trigger is the only operational trigger.
https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t8218-1989-cva-users-manual

Good advice. When still in business we have had to drill out bad looking clean out screws and use an easy-out to remove that screw (just cosmetic). We have done the same with nipples that were bugger-up being the only coarse of action. Your link for the manual is one that everyone should book mark for reference. Thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 5:57 pm

Eureka !  I finally got a patch to fit tightly down the bore without a jag and used the "number of turns" trick to measure the rate of twist.  It is 1:48 .....just what I wanted.  Smile

I have been fiddling with the trigger adjustments but, can't the rear trigger to "set" the front one.  When I pull to set it, it doesn't move at all.  Although, if I push forward on it while cocking the hammer, the hammer will not lock in firing position.  Hmmmmmmm ?????
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 5th 2017, 10:34 pm

I'm not doing something right when adjusting the trigger(s).  For a while there, the rear trigger would cause the hammer to release when it was pulled but, I think I've corrected that now.  I have not been able to find that spot where the rear trigger sets the front one.  ????
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:13 am

Hey, I think I have it fixed !  I adjusted the leaf spring and repositioned the leaf/blade for the rear trigger and it works.  Smile  However, when I put it back in the stock and tested it, the rear trigger would drop the hammer when pulled.  So, while removing it again I decided to test it once more to see if anything was causing it not to work when installed.  To my surprise, the trigger mechanism worked just fine.  So, it appears that tightening the tang screw down too far will cause interference with the trigger and cause it not to work.  The tang screw isn't loose but, it's not "tight" either.  I wonder if a shim under the trigger frame would help this problem?
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:17 am

The trigger sounds dangerous to me. I'd take it to a gunsmith, or replace it.

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:29 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
The trigger sounds dangerous to me. I'd take it to a gunsmith, or replace it.

After installing the barrel in the stock, the tang screw is very tight and the trigger continues to work as it should.  The rear trigger sets the front and the front is set at about 2 lbs with a crisp let-off.
 
If it gives me any more trouble, I'll replace it.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:34 am

How did you test it to see if it will fire by accident when the trigger is set?

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:36 am

@rowdyjoe wrote:
@Bear Claw wrote:
The trigger sounds dangerous to me. I'd take it to a gunsmith, or replace it.

After installing the barrel in the stock, the tang screw is very tight and the trigger continues to work as it should.  The rear trigger sets the front and the front is set at about 2 lbs with a crisp let-off.   If it gives me any more trouble, I'll replace it.

Do some shooting with it, just stay on your toes, "The trigger sounds dangerous to me" like Pete said, be careful and aware of previous issues.

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:39 am

Roger that.  I plan to test it every time "before" loading and capping.  Muzzle always straight down range while cocking.  Any hint of trouble and it gets replaced before shooting again.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:45 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
How did you test it to see if it will fire by accident when the trigger is set?


I tested it off the gun and on the gun using the rear trigger to set the front.  Multiple repetitions of the test went without mishap.  Also did the hammer "push off" test without a problem. 
I feel confident it will work fine but, will be extra cautious the first few trips to the range.   

Thanks for your concern.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 9:47 am

No, do this. Cock the hammer all the way back. set the rear trigger. Unloaded of course. Then hit the hammer with heel of your palm. Bang the butt on the floor a few times. Hit the side of the gun with the heel of your palm.

What your testing is to see it it will hold when in the firing stage. If you can get the the hammer to fall the trigger is not set right. You can also do the same test with the hammer in half cock position.

edit...You made another post when I was typing.

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 10:00 am

@Bear Claw wrote:
No, do this. Cock the hammer all the way back. set the rear trigger. Unloaded of course. Then hit the hammer with heel of your palm. Bang the butt on the floor a few times. Hit the side of the gun with the heel of your palm.

What your testing is to see it it will hold when in the firing stage. If you can get the the hammer to fall the trigger is not set right. You can also do the same test with the hammer in half cock position.

edit...You made another post when I was typing.

Done.  All is good.  Smile  Thanks again.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 10:07 am

Could be the typical area thats inletted to deeply and needs bedding like I do on my rifles.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 6th 2017, 4:03 pm

Well, I've done it now. I've broken the sear spring in the lock and it won't half cock at all and full cock (with the lock out of the rifle) is only accomplished by pushing the sear into place.
I broke this spring during an overly aggressive push-off test.  Deer Creek had some in stock and I ordered one.  Now waiting for parts but, that's OK I guess because, I'm also waiting for accessories and bullets (balls).  Looks like it will be next week before I have a chance to shoot it ....if I'm lucky.  Smile

I got a better look at the nipple in daylight and, as I feared, the flats have been rounded off.  So, this will be another chore before I can get this gun in firing condition.  I have the barrel sitting in a corner with the nipple plugged up and a load of penetrating oil down the barrel.  Hoping this loosens it up.

I'm getting to know the lock and trigger mechanisms pretty well ...and that's a good thing.  I also discovered I need a new rear trigger spring.  The current one is broken at the larger hole at the rear of the plate where the retaining screw screws in.  The metal in that spring must be fairly brittle.  It broke right through the hole so the only thing holding it in place is friction.  As the screw is tightened the spring wants to slide forward and interfere with the rear trigger "leaf" and the rear trigger won't "set" the front trigger.  Deer Creek doesn't show any on their web site but, I sent a message to them asking if they had any.  If they don't, I'll have to come up with a way to prevent the spring sliding forward.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 7th 2017, 11:50 am

Deer Creek doesn't sell the trigger spring separately so, I bought a trigger assembly.  Sear spring has been shipped and if they ship the trigger assembly today I should be in business by the end of next week (?).
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 12:03 am

I'm concerned about the condition of the sear in my rifle.  It doesn't look right to me but, I'm not real sure how they are supposed to look.  Based on the pictures, can anyone tell me if the nose of the sear is OK? 
The sear spring is broken and I moved the sear by hand to put it in the positions you see.  The new spring should be here today.

Wow, the pics turned out BIGGER than I thought ....but, you should be able to see the parts really well. Very Happy
It's not really as dirty as it looks.  A little bit of light machine oil looks like a gallon of rear end grease at this magnification. 




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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 12:31 am

the full cock notch (tumbler) looks like it has a chip in the corner, as does the sear. Rounding the sear is a way to lighten the trigger pull, so thats why it looks funky when its in the full cock and half cock position.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 1:20 am

Thanks Jonathan. 
It locks into each position pretty solid so, I think it will be OK to operate once I replace the sear spring.  Is there anything special I need to know about replacing that spring?  It looks to be pretty straight forward to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 2:51 pm

Well, the new spring and trigger assembly arrived today.  However, I'm not having any luck with either part.  The old sear spring looks exactly like the new one ....that is, unbroken.  Now what?  It appears the sear is rotating too far down and the end of the sear spring no longer touches it but, blocks it from releasing the tumbler. 

Sear spring issue fixed ...I finally saw the small tab on the spring and positioned it to sit in the hole in the lock plate and the lock is working fine now. 

However, the main spring in the new set trigger broke at the bolt/screw hole while trying to adjust it.  Since Deer Creek is closed today, I left a message asking for a replacement spring.  I haven't had much success at getting answers to messages from them so, I"ll call the on Monday.

Is there a "fix/replacement" for these brittle trigger main springs?
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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 3:16 pm

Are you getting the feeling that you should have passed on this rifle ???  I would be getting that feeling if it were mine.....  Question

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PostSubject: Re: Rifle Arrived Today - Problems Already - Minor ?   June 10th 2017, 3:32 pm

Not really. 
I'm the one who broke the sear spring and the new trigger main spring.  The old one was broken when I got it but, at least it worked. 
I'm learning and making some progress.  If I can figure out a fix for the trigger main spring problem it will be in good shape.
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