Muzzleloading Forum
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Barrel Grades

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 1:54 pm

I need a simple, quick definition that is elusive to find on the net. 

I see in some catalogs a Grade on barrels. A, -A, B... 
Not all sources even list them and none define them. 

Help?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BrownBear



Number of posts : 238
Age : 66
Location : Alaska
Registration date : 2017-04-19

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 3:00 pm

Worse yet, every single maker has his own grading system. Then you have to ask yourself which if better, a #1 from this guy or an A from that guy, or an "air gauge" (remember those?) from another shop or a "match grade" from yet another.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 3:55 pm

@BrownBear wrote:
Worse yet, every single maker has his own grading system. Then you have to ask yourself which if better, a #1 from this guy or an A from that guy, or an "air gauge" (remember those?) from another shop or a "match grade" from yet another.

Oh, good. Its not just me. I was afraid I was missing something.

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BrownBear



Number of posts : 238
Age : 66
Location : Alaska
Registration date : 2017-04-19

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 4:17 pm

Frankly muzzleloading barrels are getting so hard to find without special orders or long waits, a guy is just happy to find one of any make in the right caliber, twist and diameter. I searched far and wide for a 7/8" 45 caliber barrel back when I was collecting parts for my GRRW-CA Squirrel Rifle, and after a couple of weeks was more than happy to "settle" for a version from Green Mountain.  Turned out to be a fine barrel, but it wasn't my dream choice by any means. When push came to shove, the dream of having the rifle in my hands was more important that waiting an extra 6 months or a year to get the "right" barrel.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 4:59 pm

OK... I can't speak for all the other ratings, but I found the definition for the Colerain barrels. 
Finally!

This applies to swamped barrels. Ratings A-C refers to size. Specifically, 'A' is slightly narrower starting at the breech 
and continuing all across to the muzzle. Each section of 'A' is slightly smaller (a .050 difference at the breech) than a 'B.' 

This means an 'A' would be a bit lighter weight than a 'B' or a 'C.'

Interesting what you discover. The reason it is hard to find a definition? This 'across the barrel' length difference is best 
expressed with art, not words. It is easier to understand when looking at a picture. I did not see any written explanations.


Colerain Chart

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA


Last edited by Kentucky Colonel on July 23rd 2017, 5:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
patocazador
Site
Site
avatar

Number of posts : 5420
Age : 74
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 5:04 pm

If you're having a custom long rifle built, a swamped barrel is definitely the way to go. I wish I had one.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buck Conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1721
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 6:53 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:





Colerain Chart

This is showing you the measurements of the outside of the barrel used for the barrel channel, is that what your asking. This has nothing to due with the grading on the quality of barrels.
-----------------------------------

The manufacturing process, barrel-quality steel is carefully controlled and inspected to ensure the material structure is correct for rifle barrel use. There are two basic steel options available: stainless steel and chromium-molybdenum alloy steel. Stainless steels are special, gun-barrel quality grades of Carpenter or Crucible 416. Suppliers of chrome-moly steels have changed as the American steel industry continues to suffer bankruptcies and closures due to competition from cheap, imported steels. (See "Blood and Iron Pyrite" by Eric J. Obermeyer in the Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture, Vol. 28, No. 4, April 2004, pages 51-53.) This has resulted in a situation where high-quality specialty grades of steel (numbering) are becoming harder to obtain, steel prices are going up, and minimum order quantities are now about 10 times larger. The type of steel used has a significant impact on the price of a barrel, since stainless steel costs approximately four times more than chrome-moly. In addition to the cost differential associated with the material in the barrel itself and with the material removed during the manufacturing process, there are additional costs due to drops resulting form having to purchase bars of certain lengths, which may not allow for full, end-to-end usage.
-----------------------------------

Numbering is the quality of the metal used in barrel making from what I was told by Turner Kirkland (Dixie Gun Works owner) years ago. I would think that's still correct !!!  I'm looking through my files for the numbers and what each means KC, be back in a bit.

_________________
"
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 7:02 pm

Yes. Size. That is what I wrote, yes? 
Was that wrong?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buck Conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1721
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 7:11 pm

Yes an 'A' would be a lighter weight than a 'B' or a 'C' barrels. I was thinking the numbers used to grage the barrels, sorry.

_________________
"
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
jeager106



Number of posts : 145
Age : 71
Location : Ohio
Registration date : 2017-07-17

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 8:37 pm

I have one.

http://www.custommuzzleloaders.com/buckscounty.html

.40 cal. 42" Swamped "B" weight Colerain barrel
Barrel and Breach is 100% bedded and realeased (no bedding is visable)
Siler Flintlock from Jim Chambers lock shop (Browned)
Chambers "White Lightning" Vent Liner
Davis Single Trigger, customized pull (3/32" pull length at 6 oz. pull (smooth)
Length of pull is approx. 13 3/4"
Drop at heel is approx. 3 1/2"
Weight is 9 lbs, balance point right at the rear of the entry pipe
Brass sideplate, trigger guard, nosecap, and buttplate
Over 20 coats of hand rubbed Tung Oil, rubbed to glass smooth satin sheen


Jealous?
Go ahead. Admit it. lol!

Does it shoot?
Silly. 
Of course it does.
I've loaded as little as 10 grains of Swiss 3 fg and it's like
a .22 rifle.
She's a one ragged hole at 50 yards rifle.
I suppose it would take a deer but I don't hunt it.
I only shoot it, clean carefully, and give it all my love and
put her away.
I'd sleep with it but she who must be obeyed won't let me.
I'd NEVER, EVER, use GOEX or counterfeit faux power
like T-7 or Pyropoof.
It would be a mortal sin.
I have a custom .45 round ball shooter for deer if I want
to use it. It has a Douglas air gauged barrel.
Douglas quit making muzzle loading barrels I think.

Thorts?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 8:46 pm

Cool. Tell us about it. How did you get it? How does it handle?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jeager106



Number of posts : 145
Age : 71
Location : Ohio
Registration date : 2017-07-17

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 8:48 pm

http://ns1.holidays.net/store/G-R-Douglas-45-caliber-muzzleloading-barrel-unused_261200840625.html

Click link and see if it's still available if interested.

I know nothing of that site.
Came up when I googled Douglas p.b. barrel.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jeager106



Number of posts : 145
Age : 71
Location : Ohio
Registration date : 2017-07-17

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 8:58 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Cool. Tell us about it. How did you get it? How does it handle?

"how did you get it?"

Really?
I bought it from the maker.
http://www.custommuzzleloaders.com/guns.html

^^^^^^^^^^^this!

It handles like a custom made .40 caliber Bucks County
replica rifle all handmade. A dream, an absolute fine shooting
experience.
I won't even let anyone else shoot it. Or even touch it.
You should see the knives he makes.
I have one.
It's a dream come true.
I doubt I could afford to replace it today IF I could find
one similar.
I paid around a grand back then.
I went on Track of the Wolf and anything even close is
$3 to $5 grand.
I shoot only Swiss in my custom guns.
Anything else gets GOEX and Elephant.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwww
And never mind that pyrojunk.
Am I a black powder muzzle loading snob?
You bet your bippy I am. Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jeager106



Number of posts : 145
Age : 71
Location : Ohio
Registration date : 2017-07-17

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 9:05 pm

Check this one out.
Spanish but good Spanish replica.
Nice one indeed.
$399.00
Worth every penny.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/492/1/AAQ-669

This percussion long rifle was offered in the 1970's and early 1980's. The rifle is stocked in beech, with brass furniture, blued barrel, and color case hardened lock. The rifle appears to have seen only limited use with a few handling marks on the lock, stock, and barrel. 


Hummmmmmmmmmmmm? Should I?


It won't last long.
But I have so many nice ones.
Lots of powder too.
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm?


She who must be obeyed will really get ticked!
I absolutely don't need it.
But since when does need have anything to do with our insanity???? Very Happy


Cheesh I have TWO more on the way now!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BrownBear



Number of posts : 238
Age : 66
Location : Alaska
Registration date : 2017-04-19

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 9:17 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Yes. Size. That is what I wrote, yes? 
Was that wrong?

You wrote "grades" in the title and body of your opening post, but yes, there's also the possibility of weight if swamped barrels are on your list of possibilities.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sharpsman

avatar

Male Number of posts : 521
Age : 77
Location : Clear Lake, Louisiana
Registration date : 2016-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 23rd 2017, 9:52 pm

I don't care for skinny barrels....or fat women!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 8:04 am

@BrownBear wrote:
@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Yes. Size. That is what I wrote, yes? 
Was that wrong?

You wrote "grades" in the title and body of your opening post, but yes, there's also the possibility of weight if swamped barrels are on your list of possibilities.

Yep. I wrote that when I did not know what it was. I see the room for confusion. 

'Skinny barrels...' What is the down side?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
patocazador
Site
Site
avatar

Number of posts : 5420
Age : 74
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 9:04 am

@patocazador wrote:
"'Skinny barrels...' What is the down side?"


The long rifles don't weigh as much and aren't so barrel heavy. I consider that a plus when you're sighting on a deer ... especially with a flintlock that can hang fire. Barrel heating is never a problem since you're only shooting once at a deer. 
In competition it may be a different story but the only competition I worry about is between me and the deer.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
Back to top Go down
View user profile
BrownBear



Number of posts : 238
Age : 66
Location : Alaska
Registration date : 2017-04-19

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 10:01 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
'Skinny barrels...' What is the down side?
I talked to my smith about it in some detail.  There's a point at which if the barrel is too skinny, any little change in the bedding can cause warping. That could be from a bum bedding job, warping in the forestock with age, or even barrel heating and expansion between the pins holding the barrel.  He was real shy of skinny barrels unless the caliber was relatively small. Heck, he insisted on 7/8" for the straight 45 caliber barrel on my Leman Squirrel Rifle. Probably overkill for lots of folks, but he likes the "better safe than sorry" outlook.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buck Conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1721
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 3:23 pm

@BrownBear wrote:
@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
'Skinny barrels...' What is the down side?
I talked to my smith about it in some detail.  There's a point at which if the barrel is too skinny, any little change in the bedding can cause warping. That could be from a bum bedding job, warping in the forestock with age, or even barrel heating and expansion between the pins holding the barrel.  He was real shy of skinny barrels unless the caliber was relatively small. Heck, he insisted on 7/8" for the straight 45 caliber barrel on my Leman Squirrel Rifle. Probably overkill for lots of folks, but he likes the "better safe than sorry" outlook.


Thanks Hank I was just going to say the same...

_________________
"
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
Kentucky Colonel
FML's
FML's
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1528
Age : 109
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 3:30 pm

Great info, Hank. Thanks.

The chart is higher in this thread. Do you think the difference between an 'A' and a 'B' 
would make much difference?

And, do you consider a .40 calibre a "small calibre" in this case?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Buck Conner
Site Moderator &
Site Moderator &
avatar

Male Number of posts : 1721
Age : 77
Location : Lehi Utah
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   July 24th 2017, 3:54 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Great info, Hank. Thanks.

The chart is higher in this thread. Do you think the difference between an 'A' and a 'B' 
would make much difference?

And, do you consider a .40 calibre a "small calibre" in this case?


I would go with the "A" on the chart, nothing wrong with a .40 caliber and yes its considered "squirrel rifle" material.

In Colorado a National Match is held each year for over 40 years, the largest caliber allowed is .40 caliber -  the "Colorado State Championship Squirrel Shooting Matches".  Even use to hold National Postal Matches with the same rules.

DOW in CO allows you to use a .40 cal. gun for deer hunting, nothing smaller. You can stoke them up using 3F powder to where they have the killing power of many modern caliber rifles. 

I use to use a .36 caliber Poor Boy rifle to hunt on ours and the neighbors places covering over 10,500 acres next to Roosevelt National Park near Estes Park. The chances of getting caught was pretty slim when using this rifle, couldn't help myself. With 58 grains of 3F it hit and sounded like a .22 Hornet, man what a deer shootin' gun.

_________________
"
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://grrwca..com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Barrel Grades   

Back to top Go down
 
Barrel Grades
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Frontier Muzzleloading :: Muzzleloading Topic :: Traditional Muzzleloading-
Jump to: