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1Longbow



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PostSubject: Inline problem   August 10th 2017, 3:28 pm

First ,I don't shoot and inline. My buddy son bought a new CVA inline and has a problem that I can't answer,and I'm hoping you can help. His first shot is always 4 inches to the left of the bullseye. He cleans his gun,but uses no oil in the barrel afterwards.Before shooting he runs a dry patch down the barrel,snaps a cap,followed by another dry patch. He uses BH power,and I'm not sure of the bullet. Any suggestions why this happens only on the first shot? Cold barrel? How to correct? 
Thank you for any answers:?:
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 10th 2017, 4:38 pm

Once upon a time I picked up a White 54 cal inline just to see what all the fuss was about.  Inlines turned out not to be right for my interests, but I learned a lot from it in the couple of years I had it before giving it away to a friend.  He still owns and shoots it and finds the same thing.

Mine was doing exactly that on the first shot. But over the course of a lot of experimenting I learned a solution. Mine shot much tighter and bore fouling was reduced if I stuck a lubed felt wad or bore button down the bore between powder (any type) and sabot or bare conical. Doing that I also learned that it quit tossing that first shot. All of them would land in the same place every time. 

I'm guessing wildly here, but I always figured that shoving that lubed felt wad somehow created bore conditions that somehow worked like fouling did without it.  Call it "fouling" the bore before shooting, but it sure worked.

Give it a try in his gun. Hopefully it will solve the problem and might even result in tighter groups even without the flyer.
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 10th 2017, 6:03 pm

Some rifles are like that and need a fouling shot in order to hit center. If its consistently 4" to the left, he should be able to remember that while in the field, or hunt with a fouled bore.

What I normally do when I run into this problem... I load up, take a shot or 2 on the range and when I get home, I run a few DRY patches down the bore to remove most of the BH209 fouling. That's how I go hunting and she shoots center.
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conner
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 13th 2017, 6:52 pm

BrownBear wrote:
Once upon a time I picked up a White 54 cal inline just to see what all the fuss was about.  Inlines turned out not to be right for my interests.....

Doc is always showing me the newest model he's working on, like you have no interest at all. I would get put to the fire in Colorado if I touched one after fighting to keep the muzzleloading season as originally started as a "primitive rifle season only" period, for over 25 years. afro

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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 13th 2017, 8:34 pm

conner wrote:
...fighting to keep the muzzleloading season as originally started as a "primitive rifle season only" period, for over 25 years.
 If you had a hand in that, my hat's off to you.  For me "primitive" doesn't include modern scopes and such.  No sense all for me to go out with a 100 yard arm or a 50 yard arm when everyone around me is shooting 150-200 or more.  Kept the scopes off ML's here in Alaska for the same reason. Guys are welcome to use the inlines, but only with open sights.  Suits me.
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 13th 2017, 9:20 pm

BrownBear wrote:
conner wrote:
...fighting to keep the muzzleloading season as originally started as a "primitive rifle season only" period, for over 25 years.
 If you had a hand in that, my hat's off to you. 

I was involved for 12 years as some sort of an officer with Colorado, on the Board at NRA Whittington Center in Raton and spent many years with the Western States Muzzle Loading Association as an officer. Between fighting the bow hunters, regular rifle and then in-lines it was and is always a fight for permit numbers that others tried to steal from us.

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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 14th 2017, 6:57 am

Hi 1Longbow, you mentioned that your friend's son cleans his rifle but doesn't use any oil in the barrel.  I use BH209, after the range session is over I always clean my rifles and run a patch with "oil" in the barrel.  I then run a patch with Frontiers Anti-Rust & Patch Lube.  The next time I take the rifle to the range I run a dry patch down the barrel and shoot off two primers. The barrel will have a little residue of Lube, it will not be a completely dry barrel.  This might not be what others do but it's what works for me.

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conner
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 14th 2017, 7:18 am

ditto

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jeager106



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 5:48 am

f.w.i.w

I have an inline or two but prefer trad black powder firearms.

I always wondered how shooters protected the bore back in the day when there
was only black powder arms so I researched it.

Our Civil War as an example.

A tampion (sp?) was a simple device that was inserted into the bore at the muzzle
to keep moisture out of the bore.
It worked fine.

NOT a Tampon! Though one wonders if a Tampon would work.
But I digress.



Being a doubter I tried this in Ohio August hot and humid weather.

I simply swabbed the bore with a dry patch to get some fouling out and plugged
the bore with a rubber stopper that fit snugly.

This after firing some 10 rounds to get the thing really fouled.

After one month there was zero corrosion.

All that being said I don't shoot my black powder weapons without a good cleaning
before putting them away.

No sense being silly about it and ruining a good rifle.

It was a T.C. .50 caliber I used for testing. No great loss if I ruined that
factory barrel as I replaced my T.C. factory barrels with Green Mountain
barrels anyway.

Re: rubber stopper. Since I got the stoppers years ago I forgot
where I got them but believe I found them online.
If I recall right I got about a dozen of various sizes.
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 7:16 am

Quote :
He cleans his gun,but uses no oil in the barrel afterwards.Before shooting he runs a dry patch down the barrel,snaps a cap,followed by another dry patch. He uses BH power,and I'm not sure of the bullet. Any suggestions why this happens only on the first shot? Cold barrel? How to correct? 
Thank you for any answers:?:

Some guns put the first shot from a clean barrel at a different poi than a dirty barrel.   Seldom are the shots more than a few inches apart.   4" at one hundred yards is still minute of pig. 

Some folks greatly overthink this stuff:  It really ain't rocket science.   With a muzzleloader you get one shot at an animal.   i hunt with a squeaky clean barrel. 

Unlike black powder and the other black powder substitutes Black Horn is a smokeless powder with some smoke added.  There is very little residue in the bore after firing Black Horn.  

Stop snapping caps.  It's not needed with Black Horn.

Quote :
A tampion (sp?) was a simple device that was inserted into the bore at the muzzle
to keep moisture out of the bore.
It worked fine.


Yeah, they sometimes did that with cannons.  In my Great Grandad's Civil War diary he talks about all kinds of stuff.  No mention is made of  tampions used in rifles or muskets.  A failure to remove anything stuffed into the muzzle before firing would lead to a burst barrel.   




About  90 percent of the old muzzleloaders i've examined had ruined bores.
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 7:49 am

falcon wrote:
A failure to remove anything stuffed into the muzzle before firing would lead to a burst barrel.  

All the illustrations of historic models I've seen show them oversize or with some kind of sight blocker- so you can't aim and fire a gun with them in the bore.  Due to our wet climate, lotta guys around here use condoms or black electrical tape for "tampions," and a few have made true tampions- all with oversize knobs to block the line of sight.
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Smokin' Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 8:37 am

I've learned the hard way to "always" snap a cap on my In-lines.  I've never thought about it having a great effect on the first shot in a hunting situation.  My hunting is all under 50 yards anyway so how much could a bullet really move in that short distance. It will "always" be within a minute of deer or a "minute of pig" as Falcon stated.  The reason I pop a cap or two is because I have experienced breech plug ignition failure.  So even though everything is clean, prior to loading up the first time at deer camp I pop a cap or two and will always recommend it to others.

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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 8:47 am

I have had several misfires (cap goes off but charge doesn't) at deer the first shot after cleaning my sidelock. I've ruined easy chances at 4 deer, at least, due to this. Then I started popping caps after swabbing with a dry patch and experienced almost no problems with # 11 caps. 

However, I eventually switched to a Hubbard Mag-spark that uses 209 primers and I've never had a misfire since even with BH209.

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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 9:36 am

We have used "cow's knee's" for at least 30 years in Colorado as Brown Bear can tell you. It doesn't matter if percussion or flint - moisture is moisture - that we all fight (our Worst Enemy). Evil or Very Mad   Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 9:55 am

After cleaning my guns i run an oily patch in the bore.  Before loading the bore is swabbed with a tight patch moistened  with alcohol,  followed by a dry patch.  Those patches force any oil out of the nipple, flame channel or breech.  

i can remember only one malfunction with a muzzleloader, a long hang fire, while hunting.   It was most likely related to the heavy rain.   My guns always go bang when they're supposed to.
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conner
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 10:07 am

I have always used Uncle Mike's Hot Shot Nipples and experienced no misfires.


     
Sidelock Nipple

Also available for in-lines.
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 10:19 am

Only thing with Hot Shots, keep a spare handy. I stow one in any capper with a patch box.

Sooner or later they're gonna split starting right there at the little hole. And they sure quit working with even a small split in them.

Not a big deal until it happens to you.  I've had some go years without splitting and some go less than 100 shots.  Just dunno until it happens.

Not a dig on them, because I like them. But I know them well enough to know how to live with them.
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conner
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 18th 2017, 3:21 pm

Have never had any issues, must be that cold weather in Alaska ??? Rolling Eyes  geek

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strong eagle



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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   August 26th 2017, 7:48 pm

as frontier said, foul the barrel, then load for accuracy. some guns dont fire the same on a clean barrel as a fouled barre.
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   October 15th 2017, 10:30 am

As a side note here also. When you snap a cap ,pay attension. I point the muzzle at a leaf or something. I want to see that leaf jump. That tells me the channel is clear, not the loud pop.
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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   October 15th 2017, 10:50 am

strong eagle wrote:
as frontier said, foul the barrel, then load for accuracy. some guns dont fire the same on a clean barrel as a fouled barre.

That's a given that most know if shooting any length of time. From guys just getting started to the pros that are shooting the "Ten X Matches" they have gotten to know what each of their rifles or pistols like - clean or fouled bores.

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PostSubject: Re: Inline problem   October 15th 2017, 10:52 am

csitas wrote:
As a side note here also. When you snap a cap ,pay attension. I point the muzzle at a leaf or something. I want to see that leaf jump. That tells me the channel is clear, not the loud pop.

Hopefully the leaf is on the ground and not above someone's head, which I have seen a few times.
Then the fight starts.  Slap fight

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