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PostSubject: Sig P320 Problem   August 10th 2017, 8:32 pm

If you own or think about owning the Sig P320, you may want to heads up. 

I was alerted to a potential problem by a notice from a dealer I do business with.






"At The Armories, we strive to ensure that all of our customers are comfortable with any firearm they purchase. We would like to make all of our customer aware of the VOLUNTARY UPGRADE Sig Sauer has issued on their popular P320 line of pistols due to the potential of the firearm discharging when dropped. Sig Sauer has issued a statement pertaining to the situation and has plans to release further details on Monday, August 14th. We have placed a link to this topic from Sig Sauers website below for your convenience. 



We have no opinion on the performance of the P320, and to date we haven't recieved any adverse reports on how it functions. However, we have made the decision to suspend sales of this model until our entire inventory has received the upgrade. This may prove to be a timely and expensive process, as we are a Sig Sauer Master Dealer and keep hundreds of their products in stock. But we feel that it is the right thing to do in order to maintain complete transparency with our customers. We will proudly continue to sell all other models of Sig Sauer products in the mean time.



[size=13]As always, we will be happy to assist our customers with this process and encourage you to email us at INFO@THEARMORIES.COM with any questions or concerns.[/size]



Regards, 



The Armories"



I looked further because I thought this was unusual. I am copying a Maxim article out of safety concern, but advise 

you go look at the original which was published on-line 11 hours ago... 



THE ARMY'S NEW HANDGUN IS UNDER FIRE BECAUSE OF TROUBLING SAFETY DEFECTS

Earlier this year, the U.S. Army announced the winner of their Modular Handgun System 

competition to be the Sig Sauer P320, the weapon that would replace the Beretta M9 as 

every soldier's sidearm. 



Now there are alarming concerns that the totally killer new pistol might be unsafe, as online reports claim that the weapon prone to discharge when dropped. 

Two videos have surfaced that exemplify the issue. The first shows the P320 firing when dropped on its base. 

(They show a video link)

Another, from gun store Omaha Outdoors, shows the weapon discharging when dropped on its rear slide assembly.

(They show a video link)


Both videos clearly show the pistols’ trigger travelling rearward under inertia, suggesting that the mass of the trigger when jarred is causing it to move enough to trip the pistol’s sear. 

Omaha Outdoors’ video has racked up 90,000 views in just a day and the retailer has temporarily discontinued sales of the P320. The Truth About Guns have also subsequently replicated the test with similar results.  

The Sig lacks a built in trigger safety like that used by its rival Glock; however, it is worth noting that the MHS -winning XM17 has a frame mounted manual safety which would theoretically prevent accidental drop discharges.  




The P320's issues haven't just been replicated in tests, either. According to Guns.com, Sig Sauer was hit with a $7 million lawsuit filed on August 4 by a Connecticut police officer who was struck in the leg by a stray bullet after he dropped a P320 while loading equipment into a vehicle and it misfired. 



Initially, the gun giant issued a statement asserting its safety. 



On Aug. 4, Sig released a statement responding to the building allegations of P320 drop-test failures, stating, “The P320 meets and exceeds all U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.”  




But, as Task and Purpose notes, the company now appears to have walked back their original stance. 




It seems that the weight of opinion has pushed Sig Sauer to acknowledge there is a problem with the P320. On Aug. 8, the company announced a voluntary upgrade program for the P320’s trigger. 

While Sig have not outlined what the modification will be yet; 
their most recent press release claimsthat details of this program on Aug. 14. The statement goes on to reaffirm that the P320 passed the ANSI and SAAMI tests and stresses that the unintentional discharges only occur when the P320 is dropped “beyond US standards for safety.”  

Sig was keen to emphasize that “The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade.” It seems likely that the upgrade will be incorporated into pistols destined for the U.S. military.  




Hopefully Sig can figure all of this out soon, seeing as the U.S. Army awarded them a $580 million contract for developing the P320. - Maxim




Me again...

I am a Sig owner, but not the P320. I have a lot of faith in SIG. I am disappointed in hearing about this problem. 

So far, the bad news seems limited to the P320. And there is more.



Glock filed an official protest/challenge to the Army's contract to Sig. This was dismissed, but one of the grounds of the challenge 

was that the Army "failed to complete reliability testing." Additionally, Sig was sued for patent infringement on the P320 

by Steyr. This does not seem a happy firearm. I am concerned that this is the Army standard issue side arm. (quote was from 

Task & Purpose)



Sigs were standard issue for Navy SEALS and for NCIS... How did the Army's gun get so messy?

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PostSubject: Re: Sig P320 Problem   August 11th 2017, 7:39 am

"however, it is worth noting that the MHS -winning XM17 has a frame mounted manual safety which would theoretically prevent accidental drop discharges."  

Everything has to be idiot-proof nowadays. What do they think the "safety" is for? The name should be self-explanatory. 
However, they should correct the problem if they expect to have their product to be used by the armed forces of any country.

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PostSubject: Re: Sig P320 Problem   August 11th 2017, 8:09 am

The Sig 230 selected by the US military does not "go off" when dropped.  

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/09/mhs-m17-already-fixed-p320-drop-failure-issue-voluntary-upgrade-pistols-will-receive-mhs-triggers/
 

Quote :
In Tuohy's video, he noted that of the several 320s he tested the only handgun that would not go off if dropped was the one with the lighter trigger pull. Interestingly, M17 pistols destined for military use reportedly already have this new, improved, lighter trigger.



https://www.yahoo.com/news/handgun-chosen-u-army-goes-153203607.html




Yep, the US military adopted another handgun made by a foreign company.   i remember following the whining and caterwauling after the US military adopted the Beretta in the 1980s.
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PostSubject: Re: Sig P320 Problem   August 14th 2017, 7:31 pm

My neighbor is a retired Navy Officer, now working for NCIS and NSA checking contractors security issues. The Navy has used Sigs for the 25 years he was in under water demo, needless to say he eats and sleeps Sig Sauer anything. I asked him about the P320 and the issues seen in these reports.  He said his Sig P230 had the trigger replacement 2 years ago and thought most of his co harts had theirs done at the same time.

This like the Remington 700 problem with their trigger on newer guns going off ????

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PostSubject: Re: Sig P320 Problem   August 16th 2017, 7:17 pm

Sig Sauer has released the deatails on their Voluntary Sig Sauer P320 Program



I will include a link. The following is text from that link.

https://www.sigsauer.com/support/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program/



SIG SAUER is offering a voluntary program for P320 pistols. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector.



3 Steps To Upgrading Your SIG SAUER P320 Pistol 



1. Have your P320 serial number and home address available.



2. Fill out the Voluntary Upgrade Sign-Up Form - one serial number per form submission



3. SIG-SAUER will contact you regarding the best method for you to get your P320 pistol to them.



Once SIG SAUER receives your P320 pistol, they will apply the upgrades, test it, and then return it to you free of charge.

If you run into any issues, please call Customer Service and they will help you through the process. Customer Service can be reached at (603)610-3000 Option 1, from Monday through Friday, 8:30 a.m. through 6:00 p.m. EST.



If you own multiple P320s, you will need to enter each P320 serial number separately.



https://www.sigsauer.com/support/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program/





(I CAN'T SEEM TO EDIT THESE GLITCHES OUT. SORRY.)



FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:



Is my P320 safe in its current configuration?

Yes. The P320 meets and exceeds all US safety standards. However, mechanical safeties are designed to augment, not replace safe handling practices. Careless and improper handling of any firearm can result in an unintentional discharge.

What is the P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program?

SIG SAUER is offering a voluntary program for P320 pistols. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector.

Why is this upgrade happening?

Through additional testing above and beyond standard American National Standards Institute (ANSI)/Sporting Arms & Ammunition Institute (SAAMI), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), Department of Justice (DOJ), Massachusetts (MGL, Chapter 140, Section 123) and other global military and law enforcement protocols, we have confirmed that usually after multiple drops, at certain angles and conditions, a potential discharge of the firearm may result when dropped. Although it is a rare occurrence, with very specific conditions, SIG SAUER is offering an upgrade to all of its current P320 owners.





Does the owner's manual say it can be unsafe?



The language used in major manufacturer’s owner’s manuals with regard to drop safety is consistently written to warn the user that dropping a loaded firearm is not recommended and could possibly result in an accidental discharge. All precautions should be taken to avoid dropping a loaded firearm. Although extremely unlikely, it is still possible for any loaded firearm to discharge when dropped.





What caliber and models are effected?



Due to the modularity of the pistols, which all share the same trigger group, all calibers and pistol sizes are affected.



What type of ammunition was used during testing?



A variety of calibers and brands of ammunition were used.
NOTE: Loaded ammunition is not used for drop testing, only primed cases with the powder and projectile removed are used.




What is different about the updated assembly?



The new design has a physically lighter trigger, sear, and striker assembly with the addition of a mechanical disconnector.



Will this affect the X-series P320’s?



Yes. However, the X-series flat trigger will not be replaced.



What about my CAL-X Kits?



You should send any and all P320 slides with your shipment, as the striker(s) will be replaced, and the slide(s) will need the disconnector cut.



Does this affect the MHS pistol?



No, the MHS pistol is a different variant of the P320 platform. It has passed the US Army’s testing protocols (TOP).



What are my next steps?



If you are a consumer and wish to participate in the voluntary upgrade, please fill out the form at the top of this page.
 
If you are a U.S. domestic commercial dealer or distributor:



  • There will be an online form available in the near future for dealers to register.

  • For additional support, please contact Dealer Services M-F 8:30am – 5:00pm EST directly at 603-610-3000, option 2.




 

If you are a U.S. or Canadian law enforcement agency, a Canadian Consumer or an individual who purchased on the Armed Professional Program (APP) or Individual Officer Program (IOP):




  • Because of the unique circumstances involving these customers and needed additional logistical planning, there will be additional information and an online form available in the in the coming days.




 

If you are a domestic government agency/entity or individual who purchased on the Armed Professional Program (APP):




  • There will be an online form available in the near future for Government/Federal Law Enforcement to register (including those individuals who purchased via the APP). Additional information regarding this program will be made available in the coming days.




 

If you are an international customer (including Puerto Rico):




  • Please contact your Global Defense Sales representative or local distributor.






Is there a charge to participate in this upgrade?



No. The upgrade is being offered to our consumers at no cost.



Will SIG SAUER cover the shipping both ways?



Yes.



What if I don’t want to upgrade the trigger assembly on my P320?



This is a voluntary service, as the P320 meets and exceeds all ANSI/SAAMI, NIJ, DOJ, Massachusetts (MGL, Chapter 140, Section 123), and safety standards. SIG SAUER welcomes all of its P320 owners to take advantage of this program.



What if I have incorporated aftermarket items into my P320?



DO NOT RETURN YOUR P320 WITH ANY MAGAZINES, AFTERMARKET TRIGGER GROUPS, OR ACCESSORIES SUCH AS OPTICS, LIGHTS, OR LASERS. IF YOU SEND YOUR FIREARM IN WITH AFTERMARKET ACCESSORIES, SIG SAUER CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT THOSE ITEMS WILL BE RETURNED TO YOU.



Is SIG SAUER still shipping the pistol without the enhanced trigger system?



SIG SAUER has temporarily suspended shipment of the P320 from the factory while we ramp up to implement the changes.



What is the turnaround time to receive my upgraded P320?



For the US Commercial market, once you contact SIG SAUER and register for the process, you will receive an email from us at a later date with a shipping label and instructions as to when you may return your P320. This may take several weeks, as we will need time to prepare for this program. Once your P320 is received at SIG SAUER, turnaround time will be approximately 4-6 weeks. This lengthy process is due to the high volume of pistols in the marketplace. Transit times may vary depending on your geographic location and receipt of your returned pistol.



Can I have the work performed at my local dealer instead?



No. This work must be done at the SIG SAUER factory.



What serial number ranges are affected?



All current serial number ranges are affected.



Am I required to send the entire pistol?



Yes.



How will I know if the P320 has the upgraded trigger system without disassembling?



The most obvious external difference is the lightweight trigger. It has a thinner profile than the standard curved trigger. The other changes are minimal and would likely not be noticed.



How often has the incident described occurred?



Minimal reported drop-related P320 incidents have occurred in the US commercial and law enforcement markets, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date. These instances occurred in conditions that appear to be outside of normal testing protocols. The current P320 design meets and exceeds all US safety standards. As it relates to the ad hoc media drop tests, these were not part of standardized testing protocols, and they were performed using firearms in unknown conditions.



How will this affect my current P320 trigger pull?



There should be no meaningful or significant change from the current P320 trigger pull.



Should I conduct my own test to determine if my pistol is safe?



NO. SIG SAUER DOES NOT RECOMMEND THAT ANY CONSUMER PERFORM DROP TESTING BEFORE OR AFTER THIS UPGRADE. Mechanical safeties are designed to augment, not replace safe handling practices. Careless and improper handling of any firearm can result in unintentional discharge. Be aware that ad hoc testing is occurring and individuals are testing guns in conditions outside accepted testing protocols. ALL STANDARDIZED DROP TESTING IS DONE IN CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENTS WITHOUT USING LIVE AMMUNITION.

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