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PostSubject: Buck & Ball   September 28th 2017, 12:25 pm

I saw a video with a man shooting a short front stuffer with a ".75 ball with 3 .36 buck" (shot?, I assume- his writing)
If you want to look, it is on Facebook in the Muzzleloaders Brotherhood group. NOTE: he is ramming it with a primed pan.

It looked like a combo of a blunderbuss and a Jaeger in flintlock. Thoughts? Hunting applications? 


PS. Apparently, it is a blunderbuss, but it seems to have a narrow muzzle to my way of thinking.

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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   September 28th 2017, 1:10 pm

I tried that in a T.C. 12 bore and results on paper were dismal.
I'd not try a shot on a deer sized game past 25 yards.
Just my limited experience.
I shot a small buck once at about 30 yards with a regular 12 gauge load of #4 buck
and it dropped dead right there.
ONE pellet hit it in the throat and broke it's neck.
ONE pellet hit it in the front hoof.
Ohio allows rifles in certain calibers now and I took a small 8 point with my
Marlin 1895 45-70. D.R.T.
I want to take one next season with my .58 jaeger or my .40 custom Bucks County
muzzle loader.
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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   September 28th 2017, 6:18 pm

If you think about it, a buck & ball load needs to have the buckshot loaded at the bottom and the ball on top otherwise the momentum of the greater mass of the ball will disrupt the buckshot prior to hitting the target unless it's very close.
Using a paper 'cartridge' or a shot cup will help the pattern as will a tight choke. 

I want to try a PRB over some buckshot and see how it performs. Irma didn't soak all of my large cardboard boxes that I use to pattern a shotgun.

What are the views of the members on shooting a buck and ball with the ball patched? I'd like to hear your opinions.

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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   September 28th 2017, 6:56 pm

I dinked with it in my short Bess. Pure lead .732" ball and .350" buck with only a folded wad under the bunch was pretty dismal. Cast some of both from wheelweights, then started a patch just below the muzzle, added the three .350's inside it, then the .732 ball on top of them and seated the works.

That got pretty interesting, with the three .350 balls usually striking within 6" of the .732 ball at 25 yards. More like a foot to 18" away on average at 40 yards. Dunno what the load would be good for outside of battlefields a century back, but load tinkering certainly pays off.

Things got lots more interesting when I folded a couple of patches together and seated them just below the muzzle, then added five layers of 3 of the .350 wheelweight balls inside another patch for 15 total total and another wad on top. Sounds like a whole lot of lead, but in fact total weight is pretty much the same as the buck and ball.

That's a fearsome buckshot load, for sure. Due to the hard balls, deformation and dispersion were pretty minimal.  All those 65 grain balls landed pretty consistently in a 24" circle at 25 yards and about 2/3 landed inside a 30" circle all the way out at 40 yards. 

BTW- All those loads were launched with 120 grains of 1f Goex, my standard charge for the Bess with an equivalent measure (1 5/8 oz) of shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   September 29th 2017, 6:55 am

"Cast some of both from wheelweights, then started a patch just below the muzzle, added the three .350's inside it, then the .732 ball on top of them and seated the works."



So, the .732 ball was unpatched? .. just sitting on top of the .350s?

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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   September 29th 2017, 7:51 am

@patocazador wrote:
"Cast some of both from wheelweights, then started a patch just below the muzzle, added the three .350's inside it, then the .732 ball on top of them and seated the works."



So, the .732 ball was unpatched? .. just sitting on top of the .350s?

Good catch and poor writing on my part.

I cut the patch at the muzzle so that it extended up above the .732 as well. I used the same patch material (.018 ticking with TOW mink oil tallow for lube) that I use when shooting the .732's by themselves without the buck. It's a specific patch/ball combo to give me a fairly tight fit with no shifting during carry.

I don't have plans ever to shoot buck and ball again, but I keep a little leather pouch of those WW .350's in my shooting bag along with the usual handful of .732's..
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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   October 13th 2017, 8:56 pm

I have a "thing" for this load.

B&B is a combat load. Can't see it for hunting. Too much mess if you want to eat it.

Irish Brigade loaded .58 B&B to clear the sunken road at Gettysburg. (look at the pics)

James Town murder.  A duel was fought. The winner loaded B&B. Not a legal dueling load so it is considered a murder now.    http://wtkr.com/2013/06/26/jamestown-researchers-may-have-solved-oldest-unsolved-murder-in-colonial-america/

This is something I played with in 12ga. 69 round ball with buck in front and behind. Buck in front the pattern is wide giving room for bad aim in a fight. See Winchesters PDX 12 Buck and Slug loads. At 30' about 8" out of a 18" cylinder bore. NICE! I copied the Win PDX at abt 1400fps and have a bandolier of 25 hanging on the wall by the safe. 

Buck in the back you get a very tight pattern. 2"? Want bad ass? Nobel Sport Italia has a B&B of 1  .65 ball on top of 6 #1 Buck.  30' about 3"s.

I have loaded my Kentucky pistol with .440 ball and 3 #4 buck. Also 12 #4 with no ball. Ouch.
.58 Zouave-- 3  00buck on top of 500gr Minie. It scared me and I was behind the gun. Won't do that again.

Why do I do this? I'm old. Just because I can. 

I have pics of all this but for now I am too OLD and GRUMPY to fight with the computer to make it work.
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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   October 13th 2017, 10:46 pm

"What are the views of the members on shooting a buck and ball with the ball patched? I'd like to hear your opinions."



I think military  B&B came as a single unit. Ball and shot lashed up in a "bag/Patch" ready to ram down.

Was loaded ball first to spread the buck to take advantage of the wide pattern.  It is a short range load.
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PostSubject: Re: Buck & Ball   October 23rd 2017, 7:50 am

@BrownBear wrote:
That got pretty interesting, with the three .350 balls usually striking within 6" of the .732 ball at 25 yards. More like a foot to 18" away on average at 40 yards. Dunno what the load would be good for outside of battlefields a century back, but load tinkering certainly pays off.

That is where the term came from (Rev War, Civil War) used for close range when shooting into a group, hitting as many as possible with one shot. Think about it - saves powder, and with poor medical help, gets the other guys attention about the next shot. study

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