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 New elk buckskins!

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 10:42 am

Got em in today! Super super happy. For them being lightly used, they are in great shape. The waist is pretty big, 38" VS my 34", but someone sewed on modern belt loops, so that will make do for now. I may just have a local shop size them properly for me. The shirt however is perfect size. With them being elk, they are pretty damn heavy, I wont do much walking in them for damn sure.

I'll take pictures later today with them on, but for now,


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Randy Johnson



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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 10:59 am

My first time around in this game I had some elk knee britches I made myself. As I remember it, the hide cost $75 bucks in the late seventies early eighties. The pattern was marked out with a felt tip for almost a month before I got the nerve to start cutting.
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 12:23 pm

well ill be!

I tried the next button over for the suspender strap and now the pants fit like a glove. The fly still looks straight, so i think i will go with this for now until i can see how much it will cost to have a professional size them for me. I added my wide leather belt to belt snug them up and they feel real comfortable.
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JLBSparks



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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 12:47 pm

COOL!! I bought a couple rust-colored deerskins at the flea market to make a shirt, but I probably need at least 1 more to make the sleeves.

   -Joe
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 1:44 pm

To warm to show the shirt. Maybe this evening when the sun goes down I can snap a few pics. Really enjoying the pants right now.
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 5:49 pm

Complete package. When it gets colder, I'll be able to use my fur hat for pics. I must have spent 5 minutes trying to figure out which hat to use LOL.


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Kentucky Colonel
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 14th 2017, 8:07 pm

Nice, Jon.

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 20th 2017, 1:23 pm

Jon in time (shortly) you'll find if the weather warms up the hides will stick to you making removing them like pulling your own skin off. That's over experience talking of 50 years.

My friends of also that many years and myself found very early on that you'll modify the shirt into a jacket by cutting it down the front then sewing the same color hide on either side of the openings for buttons and button holes. Now you can wear a light cotton shirt like you have under the jacket or remove if needed. Most of the original hide shirts that have survived, now in museums or private collections (damn few) have had this done to them like described.  :tup2

Man that's some pretty fancy foot ware .....  Question

When your ready I'll help you to get that look of a seasoned mountaineer (sketches done by Remington of the long beard, long fringed mountain-man are baloney). The guy that posed for that drawing never got off the stores front porch (tourist type). He would have hog-tied himself with that fringe, just walk in buckbrush one time and your rethinking the fringe. headslap

I will do a few short article for you to consider about making a shirt into a jacket and the length of fringe that works best for those venturing away from the backyard grass. I've trekked, rode horses/mules, traveled by river in different modes of transportation and have found I like cloth best. Buckskins are fun but when wet will grow on you (get long on shirt sleeves and leg of pants and the worst part your butt), so for a warning try and stay dry as much as possible when wearing them. nono

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Kentucky Colonel
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 20th 2017, 2:16 pm

Buck, when I was very young, I remember being told that deer hide was terrible for wearing in the cold? 
Something about the wet being a problem (your comment triggered the memory) and not holding heat? 
Is my memory of a distant conversation right? If so, does that apply to elk skin as well? 

In any case, having a layer of shirt sounds like a great idea from a comfort standpoint and a cleaning stand point. Cloth is easier to clean than buckskin when it gets smelly. 

Please, let me know if I am off base. Thanks.

Just how does one clean a buckskin pair of pants?

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 20th 2017, 4:18 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
1). when I was very young, I remember being told that deer hide was terrible for wearing in the cold? 
Something about the wet being a problem (your comment triggered the memory) and not holding heat? 

2). In any case, having a layer of shirt sounds like a great idea from a comfort standpoint and a cleaning stand point. Cloth is easier to clean than buckskin when it gets smelly. 

3). Just how does one clean a buckskin pair of pants?

Hey KC how are you and yours doing, been off of this site for a few days with the Internet being down in this apartment complex. Finally had to show a tech how to get it up and working again. Poor young man had enough schooling to be his own worst encounter. I asked this morning if he would mind if I fixed his problem (work ticket), he wasn't sure but agreed when I told him I use to design the equipment he was having issues with. Anyway within 15 minutes we were up and running, then I help a mini class on trouble shooting. My wife finally dragged me away from the kid so he could move on, she told him "don't tell anyone where the help came from".

1). You were told the correct thing about wet leather whether deer, elk, or buffalo. Leather holds your body heat which becomes moisture, then you feel the cold dampness of your own body heat. You get it wet, your in trouble as the only way to dry it is take it off and hang it by the fire to dry if in camp or hang it in your laundry room for it to dry and listen to the Mrs. complain about the smell of a wet dog. Smile

2). As suggested to Jon, if you use the leather garment as a jacket with the ability to layer under it together everything works very nicely for comfort with the ability to add or take off layers. Jon has the cloth clothes and with a little modifying he'll be very happy with his new trade of leather goods.

3). As for cleaning I have washed my skins only a couple of times in cold water with Ivory Laundry Soap (wife thinks its not available anymore). Once washed lay them on a flat clean surface so they don't stretch from their own weight being wet. Wink  I have a piece of white cotton sail cloth about 12 oz. that I use for this.

IDEA: have never tried this but I'll have to do a test on some of the sent control soaps, would be cool to be odorless for hunting, just a thought. Question   study

I mentioned fringe, have seen guys having fringe that was a foot long, got them involved in a "Mountain Man Run", none of them got through the whole course with the fringe getting tangled and they hog-tied themselves. A good friend dresses and looks like Remington's pictures with long fringe, long beard and just as skinny (seen at the bottom of this reply). We were at a National Rendezvous, "Trapper" goes to the port-a-potty (his fringe is sticking out the door), couldn't help myself I stood on it. Man all the screaming, cursing and noise of him beating on the walls got some attention. I left really fast and a poor lady behind me got some really nasty looks once "Trapper" got out of the can. One of several stories with long fringe.

I found a leather coat in the Museum of the Fur Trade that had some really neat fringe. It was about 4 inches long and each piece of leather was twisted. We figured the only way to do this is to wet the fringe and then tie one piece to the other (one twisted to the right the other twisted to the left) this prevents them from unrolling. Once dried you can untie them, they will unwind a little which is fine. The twisted fringe will help to wick any moisture if caught in an expected shower according to Charley Hanson. He had found comments about this in original journals from the fur trade. study  That's where I got the idea.

Jon's cloth clothes whether wool or cotton will work beautifully with his new leathers. :tup2

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 22nd 2017, 4:01 pm

Here are a few examples of buckskin coats found in private collections and museums in North America and Europe. The American Fur Trade and Westward Movement is really big in Europe with some collections being assembled during these periods.




Look at the fringe on some of these coats, this is what I was telling KC. Short twisted fringe looks nice, correct and is functional for wicking moisture.


NOTE: Start with the coat on the top left side working across then down to next row.

TOP ROW

1). Note the fringe on this coat, this is what I was telling KC. Short twisted fringe that looks nice and is functional for wicking moisture.

2). Again – short fringe.

3). Long fringe on shoulders and short fringe around bottom. Have owned one made like this never any issues with this design.

4). Clean inside nothing to catch on your under garments. Note this coat has a trade wool collar to keep the leather off your neck (nothing like damp smoked brain tan near your nose).

SECOND ROW

1). First row is a Canadian Meti coat found at “The Museum of Man”, dated 1855 in very good condition.

2). This is a typical hide coat worn by explorers and mountaineers in the 1840’s and 1850’s, with no fancy trimmings - a “Plain Jane”.

3). A long coat of our northern tribes by design, you can see where it was painted at one time on the sleeves, now faded.

4). Another Meti coat, these half breeds really like to be he as fancy men of wealth.

THIRD ROW

1). Plain coat of southern tribes with a combination of short and long fringe.

2). This is what the Ute and neighboring tribes wore, short fringe, earth colors painted, simple and functional like what Jon just purchased (an easy conversion).

3). Similar in length to #2 coat above with added trim and quill work.

4). I have seen this coat at “The Museum of Man”, it will knock your socks off. This will be my next project now that I sold the Peale coat. Now looking at good quality brain tanned deer hides for less weight over elk.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   October 22nd 2017, 4:48 pm


Here are two coats owned by the famous Indian fighter, trapper Tom Toblin. He was a "Fancy Dan" like his cousin Mariano Medina they both enjoyed putting on a show and had the background to support it.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   November 19th 2017, 10:15 am

They look Good on You Koz. Should give many good years of service. Glad they suit your needs.
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 3:00 pm

I see on the originals there is not much fringe.  I am guessing what we see a lot of was influenced by the Davy Crockett, Dan Boone tv series of the 1960's? 

Cheers 

Gordon. I wonder if I could make a set of clothes out of kangaroo hide?
wah, I just answered my own question, downunder we do make roo hide jackets, but no self respectin mountain man would be caught dead in one !!

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 3:07 pm

Fringe was common. Alfred Jacob Miller ( A painter at rendezvous) Noted buck skin fringes of 6 to 7 inches.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 7:07 pm

@FrontierGander wrote:
Fringe was common. Alfred Jacob Miller ( A painter at rendezvous) Noted buck skin fringes of 6 to 7 inches.

Remington's famous mountainman (that never got off the front porch) you know the one with the 12 inch fringe was baloney from the start. They best way to tell if your fringe is to long is use the garment, the brush in your area will tell you if there's a problem. All you need to have with you is a sharp patch knife to make adjustments. You look at the references provided and you see short fringe, these example were used, enough said.....

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 7:09 pm

@heelerau wrote:

..... but no self respectin mountain man would be caught dead in one !!

If that's all that was available you would use them.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 7:20 pm

Yeah that I may do Buck. I do not like the loud swishing sound and slapping it makes when I walk. I do plan on wearing the pants for hunting season. The shirt, not so much as it will get to hot.
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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 8th 2018, 7:26 pm

I always thought they used the fringe pieces for tying things when necessary. Just cut off a piece and tie things down. I can't imagine that they gave a damn about how it looked. Practicality overrules fashion.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 9th 2018, 8:19 am

Fringe was originally added to clothing for if you will "a drain system". What the heck is a "drain system", think about this. When you get wet whether in the rain or in the snow, what part of your clothes stay wet the longest. It's you sleeves, bottom edge of your upper garment, seams on the outer edge of your pants. Our fore fathers whether in the military or like the mountain men figured out early on if fringe was added the moisture would follow down to the lowest spot to drain - the fringe. When reading old fort records, journals and information on clothing the use of fringe and its main purpose is what I just mentioned. The artist's paintings just show fringe because the real use was just common knowledge, not to make clothing fancy.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 9th 2018, 9:10 am

That never entered my mind. Interesting.

Personally, I prefer an electric dryer.

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 9th 2018, 10:09 am

Bob you need to forget the hair dryer and stop doing like this guy  ....

https://adland.tv/commercials/dollar-shave-club-buttery-dunes-2017-30-usa

lol!

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PostSubject: Re: New elk buckskins!   April 10th 2018, 7:48 am

When it swishes around it helps to keep tick and bugs off ya too.
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