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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

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PostSubject: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 12:26 pm

Hello All, I received a new CVA Wolf for Christmas a long with a Konus 9X32 scope.  This is my first muzzleloader.
I'm still getting my gun sighted in using 2 White Hot pellets, 209 primer, and a PowerBelt™ Aero Tip and Hollow Point 295 grain.

I have some newbie questions;

I am going to be using the gun for hunting, but I noticed the first time I shot it the amount of smoke that comes out of the barrel when
when fired.  I knew there was going to be smoke, but how am I going to know if I hit the deer through all the smoke?  Is there some other pellet or powder that I can use that will not produce as smoke?

Is there a cheaper bullet I can use for target practice?  Any recommendations?
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 1:17 pm

The best way to know is to see the game laying on the ground when the smoke clears. Otherwise, you have to be alert and look at all the escape routes for a sign of it running. The last option is to track it. My favorite.

All black powder and substitutes smoke. If it doesn't smoke enough they add more. It's part of muzzleloading.

The Powerbelt is not popular anymore. It can have poor performance on game at times. Most hunters would rather not take the chance. What are the muzzleloader laws in your state? Can you shoot sabots? What game are you hunting?

Welcome to the forum.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 2:32 pm

Thanks for the response Pete, I also have some Sabertooth Belted 50 cal.  They were recommended by at the local gun store.  I also just check the Wisconsin Muzzleloader Regs and the only rule is it must .45 caliber or larger.

I'm new to Muzzleloader and have only fired my gun twice so far.  The only knowledge I have of them is what I have read and the local gun store.  So I'm looking for any help or recommendations I can get.  So please feel free to share your wealth of knowledge on the subject. lol

Thanks
Brad

I have look and not found anything saying I can't use Sabots and I'll be hunting deer.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 3:01 pm

Harvester made those Sabertooth bullets. They also make a bullet called Scorpion PT Gold. It's a good performing bullet and can be bought in bulk for around $25 for 50. Plus, I think the sabots would be another $7 or so. That's about as cheap as you'll find for a saboted bullet. Cheap enough to use for practice and good enough to hunt with.

They come in 260gr which would be good for deer and a 300gr for bigger game like elk. What do you hunt?

https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php/products/scorpion-pt-gold

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 3:07 pm

I'm hunting Deer.  I have not tried the sabertooths yet but the Powerbelt are really tight when loading them into barrel.  I can not imagine using a sabot with them.  What is the purpose of the sabot?
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 3:17 pm

With a sabot you're actually shooting a 45 cal bullet. That lets it be longer for the same weight 50 cal bullet. A longer bullet has a better BC and the smaller diameter penetrates better. The sabot also fills in the space the 45 cal bullet allows. It's much easier to seal the bullet in the bore with plastic than with the bullet. It's similar to using a patch with a round ball.

Harvester makes what they call a crush rib sabot. It has ridges on it so the whole side of the sabot doesn't contact the bore. They make it easy to load.

I'm not a fan of the Sabertooth bullets. They have a big round nose that has the BC like a round ball. They slow down fast like a round ball and don't have a lot of fpe at distance. I don't know how far you take hunting shots? The PT Gold will retain much more energy at distance over the Sabertooth.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 3:32 pm

Thanks for the info Pete, what is you feeling on pellet over powder?  I'm currently using White Hots.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 30th 2017, 3:41 pm

I may be the wrong person to ask that. I just use real black powder. A lot of guys use pellets and they do well. It does make it easier. Especially, when you're new to muzzleloaders. One of the advantages of loose powder, whether it's real black powder or one of the subs is you can fine tune your load better. With White Hots I believe they only come in 50gr pellets. You're kind of stuck shooting a 100gr or 150gr. Usually using 150 gr is not the most accurate load and has a bit of recoil. So, you're kind of stuck shooting 100gr. If that happens to be what your gun likes and it's accurate you have no problem. If it's not accurate what do you do to change the load?

Switching to another brand of pellets will give you more load choices. I know Pyrodex comes in 50gr and 30gr pellets. So, you can make up way more total amounts. 3 30gr pellets will be 90gr a 50gr and a 30gr will be 80gr. You can make up a lot more different loads to get the most accurate for your gun.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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Jotjackson

Jotjackson

Male Number of posts : 302
Age : 62
Location : Oxford,Al
Registration date : 2015-01-15

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 12:32 am

Welcome to the forum, enjoy!

_________________
Jerry W. Jackson
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Old Smoke

Old Smoke

Male Number of posts : 310
Age : 59
Location : East Texas
Registration date : 2016-01-28

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 5:30 am

Like Bear Claw sadi:  If you hit it you have a carcass laying on the ground. That's how you know.  

There is "smokless" powder and then there is everything else that most definetly is NOT smokelss.  Heck, that's part of the fun!

Toss the white hots and use Triple 7 loose powder under a sabot/bullet combo.  WAY cheaper to buy the sabots separate and the bullets in 50 or 100 per box.  They are very deadly.  I use Hornady 265 grain .44 caliber bullets and get 1" groups at 100 yards.  I actually use BH209 powder, but it's expensive.  Wish I'd started with 777 to begin with, but have too much invested in BH209 powder and load development to swithc now!
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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

New to Muzzleloader Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 12:15 pm

Thanks guys for all the help.  I'm going to give the powder and sabots a try.  I will let you know how it goes.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 12:51 pm

Which powder are you going to try?

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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bpage1124



Number of posts : 7
Age : 56
Location : WISCONSIN
Registration date : 2017-12-30

New to Muzzleloader Empty
PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 3:06 pm

I think I'm going to go with the BH209 seem that it has the best reviews
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10223
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyDecember 31st 2017, 4:36 pm

Ok, but you'll need to buy another breech plug to shoot that powder reliably. CVA and Western make them. You should also only use hot primers. The Federal 209a is the hottest.

Also, when you go to clean up after shooting you need to use the same solvents you use on smokeless guns. Black powder solvents will make a mess and won't clean it.

You also need a tight fit with whatever bullet/sabots you end up using. You'll get misfires with a loose fit.

Do all this and you'll enjoy the powder.

_________________
Pete

"You have reached the pinnacle of success as soon as you become uninterested in money, compliments, or publicity."
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trapper50



Number of posts : 26
Age : 54
Location : VA
Registration date : 2018-10-03

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PostSubject: CVA Wolf   New to Muzzleloader EmptyOctober 4th 2018, 12:12 am

My brother has the CVA Wolf it shoots awesome he made a trade on it last season & it's all but new I like the Optima V2 any CVA is a good hunting rifle
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 190
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyOctober 4th 2018, 10:50 am

For years (before I looked at internet opinions) I loaded 2-Pyrodex pellets and a 245 grain Powerbelt AeroTip. That is because the local store only carried these components. I sighted in 2 inches high at 100 yards.  I killed a lot of deer with that combo. Some bullets exited and some didn't but since I had a dead deer I didn't look for nor care about the bullets once they were fired. At some point the same store started carrying Triple 7 Pellets and I started to use them. Frankly, I didn't notice much difference in accuracy and at the time I did not have a chronograph. Same story - many dead deer. This went on for about a 10-year stretch before I had access to different powder, bullets and information. I also began to shoot more traditional rifles that require a different combo altogether. My point is this - you can successfully deer hunt just fine with whatever pellet you can get and those 245 gr Powerbelts. One time I shot an antelope at 150-yards and it worked fine. I do advise to only use 2-pellets. If you want to squeeze out more accuracy or velocity you will have to sample several components. If you don't have a chronograph a lot of the information is missing other than the group size on paper at a certain distance. 

I have used sabots for 3 seasons because I moved and had access to green Harvester Crush Rib sabots and .430 diameter 240 gr Hornady bullets. Sticking with the Triple 7 pellets this bullet performed fine on many deer and a couple of hogs. Accuracy and performance were fine. I then used Blackhorn 209.  The powder worked great but did nothing more than the pellets. With sabots, it was a lot harder to get the plastic fouling out of the barrel and I ended up getting shotgun wad solvent. Works great to remove the sabot fouling, but do not get it on your plastic stock or ramrod. It eats plastic. 

I've tried a ton of bullets and it became obvious that if I hit the deer where I intended I could kill it.  Eventually it became a matter of practicality. I use loose powder because I can use it in several different types of rifle and shotguns that require different charges for best accuracy. I had the time and interest to get the most accurate projectile for each rifle so I experimented to the tune of 100's of dollars and hours. Today, one of my rifles (a sidelock) is the one my teenage sons use. They have a hard time pushing a tight fitting projectile down the barrel. I tried the old 245gr Powerbelt AeroTip and they worked great. I happened to get the 295gr version from someone and discovered they are slightly more accurate than the 245's in that rifle. The combo has worked great on deer and hogs.

Since you are "new" at this I encourage you to use what you have and work on two things: good groups on paper and confidence in perfect ignition. If you cannot be certain the gun will go bang every time the trigger is pulled or the groups are too big for hunting you will need to change some components to get those characteristics right. Once you get comfortable and have some success you can begin to experiment and find your favorite projectile and powder.
Good luck!
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

Male Number of posts : 24
Age : 64
Location : Indiana
Registration date : 2018-09-24

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   New to Muzzleloader EmptyOctober 4th 2018, 7:13 pm

Why do people buy a black powder muzzle loading fire arm and first thing they want is "What powder should I shoot?"

Duh, black powder.

If you've only fired two shots and asking how you are going to know "if you hit it", then you aren't even close to ready to go out shooting at live game animals.

Get that gun out and shoot it. Shoot it until YOU KNOW IT. Shoot it until you can come back here and TELL US how you'll know if you hit it.

Hit, a deer's heart is about the size of a softball, NOT A PIE PLATE, and a deer's heart is hopping and bobbing around between their front legs and they move randomly. They are living animals not a pie plate nailed to a stump.

The furthest you can hit a hedge apple or soft ball EVERY SINGLE SHOT on a shooting range, you should be ok shooting deer HALF THAT FAR.
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