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PostSubject: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 12:26 pm

Hello All, I received a new CVA Wolf for Christmas a long with a Konus 9X32 scope.  This is my first muzzleloader.
I'm still getting my gun sighted in using 2 White Hot pellets, 209 primer, and a PowerBelt™ Aero Tip and Hollow Point 295 grain.

I have some newbie questions;

I am going to be using the gun for hunting, but I noticed the first time I shot it the amount of smoke that comes out of the barrel when
when fired.  I knew there was going to be smoke, but how am I going to know if I hit the deer through all the smoke?  Is there some other pellet or powder that I can use that will not produce as smoke?

Is there a cheaper bullet I can use for target practice?  Any recommendations?
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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 1:17 pm

The best way to know is to see the game laying on the ground when the smoke clears. Otherwise, you have to be alert and look at all the escape routes for a sign of it running. The last option is to track it. My favorite.

All black powder and substitutes smoke. If it doesn't smoke enough they add more. It's part of muzzleloading.

The Powerbelt is not popular anymore. It can have poor performance on game at times. Most hunters would rather not take the chance. What are the muzzleloader laws in your state? Can you shoot sabots? What game are you hunting?

Welcome to the forum.

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 2:32 pm

Thanks for the response Pete, I also have some Sabertooth Belted 50 cal.  They were recommended by at the local gun store.  I also just check the Wisconsin Muzzleloader Regs and the only rule is it must .45 caliber or larger.

I'm new to Muzzleloader and have only fired my gun twice so far.  The only knowledge I have of them is what I have read and the local gun store.  So I'm looking for any help or recommendations I can get.  So please feel free to share your wealth of knowledge on the subject. lol

Thanks
Brad

I have look and not found anything saying I can't use Sabots and I'll be hunting deer.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 3:01 pm

Harvester made those Sabertooth bullets. They also make a bullet called Scorpion PT Gold. It's a good performing bullet and can be bought in bulk for around $25 for 50. Plus, I think the sabots would be another $7 or so. That's about as cheap as you'll find for a saboted bullet. Cheap enough to use for practice and good enough to hunt with.

They come in 260gr which would be good for deer and a 300gr for bigger game like elk. What do you hunt?

https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php/products/scorpion-pt-gold

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 3:07 pm

I'm hunting Deer.  I have not tried the sabertooths yet but the Powerbelt are really tight when loading them into barrel.  I can not imagine using a sabot with them.  What is the purpose of the sabot?
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 3:17 pm

With a sabot you're actually shooting a 45 cal bullet. That lets it be longer for the same weight 50 cal bullet. A longer bullet has a better BC and the smaller diameter penetrates better. The sabot also fills in the space the 45 cal bullet allows. It's much easier to seal the bullet in the bore with plastic than with the bullet. It's similar to using a patch with a round ball.

Harvester makes what they call a crush rib sabot. It has ridges on it so the whole side of the sabot doesn't contact the bore. They make it easy to load.

I'm not a fan of the Sabertooth bullets. They have a big round nose that has the BC like a round ball. They slow down fast like a round ball and don't have a lot of fpe at distance. I don't know how far you take hunting shots? The PT Gold will retain much more energy at distance over the Sabertooth.

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 3:32 pm

Thanks for the info Pete, what is you feeling on pellet over powder?  I'm currently using White Hots.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 30th 2017, 3:41 pm

I may be the wrong person to ask that. I just use real black powder. A lot of guys use pellets and they do well. It does make it easier. Especially, when you're new to muzzleloaders. One of the advantages of loose powder, whether it's real black powder or one of the subs is you can fine tune your load better. With White Hots I believe they only come in 50gr pellets. You're kind of stuck shooting a 100gr or 150gr. Usually using 150 gr is not the most accurate load and has a bit of recoil. So, you're kind of stuck shooting 100gr. If that happens to be what your gun likes and it's accurate you have no problem. If it's not accurate what do you do to change the load?

Switching to another brand of pellets will give you more load choices. I know Pyrodex comes in 50gr and 30gr pellets. So, you can make up way more total amounts. 3 30gr pellets will be 90gr a 50gr and a 30gr will be 80gr. You can make up a lot more different loads to get the most accurate for your gun.

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 12:32 am

Welcome to the forum, enjoy!

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 5:30 am

Like Bear Claw sadi:  If you hit it you have a carcass laying on the ground. That's how you know.  

There is "smokless" powder and then there is everything else that most definetly is NOT smokelss.  Heck, that's part of the fun!

Toss the white hots and use Triple 7 loose powder under a sabot/bullet combo.  WAY cheaper to buy the sabots separate and the bullets in 50 or 100 per box.  They are very deadly.  I use Hornady 265 grain .44 caliber bullets and get 1" groups at 100 yards.  I actually use BH209 powder, but it's expensive.  Wish I'd started with 777 to begin with, but have too much invested in BH209 powder and load development to swithc now!
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 12:15 pm

Thanks guys for all the help.  I'm going to give the powder and sabots a try.  I will let you know how it goes.
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 12:51 pm

Which powder are you going to try?

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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 3:06 pm

I think I'm going to go with the BH209 seem that it has the best reviews
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PostSubject: Re: New to Muzzleloader   December 31st 2017, 4:36 pm

Ok, but you'll need to buy another breech plug to shoot that powder reliably. CVA and Western make them. You should also only use hot primers. The Federal 209a is the hottest.

Also, when you go to clean up after shooting you need to use the same solvents you use on smokeless guns. Black powder solvents will make a mess and won't clean it.

You also need a tight fit with whatever bullet/sabots you end up using. You'll get misfires with a loose fit.

Do all this and you'll enjoy the powder.

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