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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-27, 16:51

Here are a few of hundreds that have been around before we ever hit the ground (born).

https://www.google.com/search?q=brass+capper+for+percussion+caps&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDupPHyo3aAhUBVGMKHTV9AJcQsAQISw&biw=1052&bih=610

The most used from studying shooting/hunting pouches and their accessories was this one. Originals like these that survived are so simple and they work.

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQT_vY3E0QHdcO1KGalk9ucppNOXd62DTZU9dKJvMLj2SS7H2uy

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-27, 17:05

@stoney1 wrote:

I  didn't take credit for  inventing it. I said I re-introduced it to today's BP community. WHICH I DID!! Don't confuse re-introduction with re-inventing?

I always say "NO good deed goes unpunished," Thank you for confirming that. I guess that'll be the end of the tutorial? Apparently anyone who wants to make one can just ask Ted Cash, I'm sure he'll be happy to pass along written instructions....for a fee. 

How can you "re-introduce" or "take credit" for something that's been around since the invention of the percussion cap in the early 1800's. Log Cabin Shop, Track of the Wolf and about every muzzleloading shop around has sold like cappers since opening, Dixie Gun Works has sold them since 1954 when they opened their doors and still does today. Ted Cash supplies many items to the industry and one of those items are a number of different style cappers. Sorry old friend you lost me in what you claim.

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stoney1
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stoney1

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-27, 20:34

@Buck Conner wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:

I  didn't take credit for  inventing it. I said I re-introduced it to today's BP community. WHICH I DID!! Don't confuse re-introduction with re-inventing?

I always say "NO good deed goes unpunished," Thank you for confirming that. I guess that'll be the end of the tutorial? Apparently anyone who wants to make one can just ask Ted Cash, I'm sure he'll be happy to pass along written instructions....for a fee. 

How can you "re-introduce" or "take credit" for something that's been around since the invention of the percussion cap in the early 1800's. Log Cabin Shop, Track of the Wolf and about every muzzleloading shop around has sold like cappers since opening, Dixie Gun Works has sold them since 1954 when they opened their doors and still does today. Ted Cash supplies many items to the industry and one of those items are a number of different style cappers. Sorry old friend you lost me in what you claim.
Buck
 You're right, I'm wrong, you win, I lose. Apparently I misunderstood the purpose of this website. I simply made the statement that without my reintroduction of the capper that I made (not invented) a lot of the guys would never have seen one. It was gift to Frontier Gander, not something meant to spark a range war over who said what? You're the authority on all things Black Powder. I apologize. I guess this is what you wanted to hear? Oh....  I DID NOT take credit for inventing it, look closer at my original post, I said that I cannot take credit for inventing it, but I can take credit for reintroducing it the the BP community, meaning that I simply showed people this thing. They can interpret that information as they see fit. Also, mine does not operate like the one you showed in your reply. Mine rotates, the one you showed looks to stay stationary?
God bless:
Stoney

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-27, 20:55

this is crazy! I just read about this style of capper in the book, buckskins & black powder lol.

Dave I wouldnt worry to much about it buddy! Just some misunderstanding IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 07:12

Dave my sediments too, don't worry about it.  Keep up the fine work.  I enjoy your contribution to the forum as I'm sure hundreds of others forum members do.  Sometimes folks interpret things a little too seriously and forget we're here to "enjoy" the camaraderie.

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Joe

Semper Fi……..
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patocazador

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 08:36

Old people get grouchy. Take your Geritol, Buck, and feel better.

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Bob

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 09:43

Bob, I don't take any medications "what you have, you deal with".  

You guys don't understand the relationship between my old bud Dave and myself, he'll give me trouble and I return the thought. That keeps both of us thinking. 

We have kicked around more ideas than you guys would believe on styles of knives, sheaths and pricing that only the two of us know about. All in trying to make historically correct pieces of art for you guys. By the way his work has improved and would be considered "pieces of art" in today's world.

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 12:06

@Smokin' Joe wrote:
Dave my sediments too, don't worry about it.  Keep up the fine work.  I enjoy your contribution to the forum as I'm sure hundreds of others forum members do.  Sometimes folks interpret things a little too seriously and forget we're here to "enjoy" the camaraderie.
Joe
 Thank you for the vote of confidence. I'm thrilled to know that you guys have my back. Buck and I DO work on blade patterns, sheath styles, and pricing. Buck has become a good friend, but I do have to say this conversation HAS raised a few hackles, at least on my end? Maybe it wasn't meant to, but the problem with internet correspondences is, You can't HEAR vocal inflections (or feel sentiment.) My work HAS improved, but it's still MY work. My hope from the start, was to make a few bucks and have a good time while doing it, but most important to me, is trying to help newbies realize that, YES..They can do this stuff too! Period Correctness and American Made are very important to me as well.
God bless:
Dave
Two Feathers
at
The Mountain Man Emporium

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 12:16

@FrontierGander wrote:
this is crazy! I just read about this style of capper in the book, buckskins & black powder lol.

Dave I wouldnt worry to much about it buddy! Just some misunderstanding IMO.
Frontier Gander
 Thanks.. My wife accuses me of being too "sensitive", sometimes maybe I am? It looks like it's under control? Thanks again for letting me put my things in the Mountain Man Emporium. I hope the members find my new designs worthy of a look and maybe a purchase?
God bless:
Dave

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 12:20

@patocazador wrote:
Old people get grouchy. Take your Geritol, Buck, and feel better.
Bob
 Thanks buddy, I appreciate the support, but we're all friends here...right? Although some of the posts make it hard to believe at times? Shocked
God bless:
Dave

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-28, 12:26

@Buck Conner wrote:
Bob, I don't take any medications "what you have, you deal with".  

You guys don't understand the relationship between my old bud Dave and myself, he'll give me trouble and I return the thought. That keeps both of us thinking. 

We have kicked around more ideas than you guys would believe on styles of knives, sheaths and pricing that only the two of us know about. All in trying to make historically correct pieces of art for you guys. By the way his work has improved and would be considered "pieces of art" in today's world.
Buck
 What can I say??????? I lost it for a while, sorry. Penny ante playground crap shouldn't be displayed here. This forum is for learning not antagonizing. I apologize to it's members and Frontier Gander for my poor behavior. Please forgive me guys.
God bless:
Dave

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-29, 06:52

Old age and you need to change your brand of booze ......  Shocked   tongue   lol!

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-29, 07:22

@Buck Conner wrote:
Old age and you need to change your brand of booze ......  Shocked   tongue   lol!
Buck
 ??????  Not sure what this post means? I AM old, BUT I don't drink. I have a few new designs, and thanks for the "pieces of art compliment."
God bless:
Dave

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-29, 07:41

@stoney1 wrote:
@Buck Conner wrote:
Old age and you need to change your brand of booze ......  Shocked   tongue   lol!

Stoney do you have any new knives? Was thinking about something a little different to help sales. If interested I can provide measurements, would stay with your handle shape and brass or steel pins. If not I'll put them back in the safe for another day.

Rotary Capper - Page 2 18rwwfty1c4l1jpg
The top knife has an interesting shape as does the second one. The bottom is like ones you have made (talking blades not handles).

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-03-29, 07:53

Buck, I can make you whatever you want within reason. The bottom one I'm in the process of making right now. It's a smaller Roach Belly with a 4 inch blade (No bolster), Black Walnut handle slabs, and Iron pins. I'll email you a picture of the blank. If it's acceptable, we'll talk! Yup, give me measurements.
Stoney
@Buck Conner wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:
@Buck Conner wrote:
Old age and you need to change your brand of booze ......  Shocked   tongue   lol!

Stoney do you have any new knives? Was thinking about something a little different to help sales. If interested I can provide measurements, would stay with your handle shape and brass or steel pins. If not I'll put them back in the safe for another day.

Rotary Capper - Page 2 18rwwfty1c4l1jpg
The top knife has an interesting shape as does the second one. The bottom is like ones you have made (talking blades not handles).

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-25, 20:28


Howdy folks: Two Feathers here.
I apologize for the disruption in this rotary capper tutorial, but between my absentmindedness and a few other things, I lost track of what I was doing. I wasn’t sure if anyone really wanted to know how to make one of these, but after some contact with a few forum members, I was told that they do want to see how it’s done. So here we go! This is my take on it, so if you have a better idea please let me know.
I hope you can see the 2 different circles I’ve scribed into my 9 oz. scrap leather? The outer circle measures 1-1/2” in diameter, 1.5” for you machinist types. The inner circle measures 1.200”. I think to make it easier for folks without micrometers or digital calipers, you could get away with 1-3/16”? Anyway… there’s a small tab or ear on the outer circle. That has to be there, so don’t cut it off when you do the next step. After I get a little farther ahead, I’ll have more of this tutorial for you. If you have any questions or comments, just email me, davesmusic13@gmail.com
Again, my apologies for the delay.
God bless:
Two Feathers
At The Mountain Man Emporium
Rotary Capper - Page 2 Cap_le10
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-28, 11:19

Howdy folks: Two Feathers here again with more tutorial.
For this piece, you’ll need steel wing dividers (or a good drafting compass), a steel rule (or tape measure), and at least one 5/32” hole punch for leather. A rotary hole punch will work as long as it can punch 5/32” holes? My CCI caps are a bit larger than that, about .165” so try one of yours and if the hole is a little too tight, ream it with a nail set punch or a tapered piece of steel rod or wood until the cap fits snugly. You don’t want the caps falling out, but you don’t want the holes so tight that you can’t get the caps in either.
First, cut around the outer circle, being careful NOT to cut off that tab. After that, this is where it might get a little confusing, but it’s not that bad. As you can see, I’ve laid out dots on the inner circle. Those are where you’ll punch holes and cut slots for the caps. I have figured the layout for 9 holes, but we’ll only use 8 of them. If you want a different number of holes (caps), let me know and I’ll give you the number you need, BUT I’ll warn you, 8 is about as many as you’ll get without problems, I’ve made enough of these to know. First, set your dividers to an opening of .410” This is where a machinist friend comes in handy. If you have a good ruler, you can set it to 7/16”, but err on the short side. You’ll only be off by .027” and you’ll never notice that. Make your first mark on the inner circle, about ¼” to the Right of that tab or ear that you left ON the outer circle. After that, keep using your dividers to continue marking all around the circle until you have 9 points on it. The other marks you see are mistakes that I made while adjusting my dividers for 9 equal points. Your last mark should fall about 1/16” from the Left edge of that tab. Don’t worry, you’re not going to use it anyway. So if it isn’t exactly there, it’s not a tragedy. The important thing is that you have 9 marks and none of them fall where the tab is. You’ll see why shortly. Next you’ll punch a 5/32” hole on each mark, but only on 8 of them starting with the first one you made. Try to center the mark in the middle of the hole. This is where a drive punch comes in handy. You could buy just one off of eBay.
We’ll do the punching and cutting in the next part.
Note: This IS NOT as difficult as you might think. Look at the pictures and it will make sense. If you should have any questions email me davesmusic13@gmail.com I’ll try to answer them the best that I can. After making one of these you’ll see how easy it really is.
God bless:
Two Feathers
Rotary Capper - Page 2 Capper10
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-28, 13:02

I am reading. Keep it coming.

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-29, 16:27

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Hole_p10
Howdy folks:
 Two Feathers here with the next part of the rotary capper tutorial.
Here you can see that I’ve punched my holes around the leather disc. I’ve cut most of them just to show you how it looks. I left a few uncut holes (I guess I should have taken photos BEFORE I started cutting, but you get the idea) I’m trying to conserve web space (yeah… good excuse)! My punch is a .156”, but if I tap it a little harder than normal, it’ll make a hole about .160”, that’s ideal. You’ll also notice that NO hole falls under that tab. Since I cut a few, you can see why it’s important to start your lay out about a ¼” to the Right of that tab, NOT right under the tab. You’ll also notice why I said to only use 8 of the holes. If I used all 9 the last hole would be partially under the tab (see the little mark right below and to the left of that tab) and you would end up cutting off the tab when you made the slot.
 Oh… my middle hole is only 1/8” diameter, but you use whatever size fits your rivet and brass disc. I use 1/8” because I have a ton of 1/8” copper split rivets left over from attaching tags to our AKC registered hunting beagles. My father in law used to raise, train, and sell them. When he passed away I inherited all his tags and rivets, so now I have a bunch of them.
 Hopefully if you look at the one I sent Frontier Gander, you’ll see where this is headed? I’m not going to leave y’all hangin’ I’ll keep going until this project is complete. Thank you guys (and gals) again for your support on this project. It started out a little “rocky” if you’ll recall. I’m not getting back into that. Just thank you. There’ll be more… hopefully soon. In the next part, we’ll see how it all goes together and gets soldered. Hopefully, I haven’t forgotten anything up to this point? If you have questions just email me at davesmusic13@gmail.com
God bless:
Two Feathers
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-29, 17:53

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-30, 18:15

Very nice tutorial. Thanks for posting it.  :rtup

Before the tutorial I thought there was a reservoir for the caps. I didn't realize that it just held 8 caps.

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-30, 18:56

@patocazador wrote:
Very nice tutorial. Thanks for posting it.  :rtup

Before the tutorial I thought there was a reservoir for the caps. I didn't realize that it just held 8 caps.
patocazador
You're very welcome. I'm sorry buddy but nope, just slots. I can give you any number of caps you want. You'll just need to let me know the exact size of your inner circle and how many holes (caps) you want to use. Of course the outer diameter will be a contributing factor? I make mine 1-1/2" O.D., anything larger gets cumbersome. You can make it ANY size you'd like. Have I deflated your interest in making one now? If I did, I'm sorry, but I'll never misrepresent myself or my products. Thanks again.
God bless:
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-07-30, 20:16

See your PM.

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-02, 08:22

I know that I have never known how they could be built by hand. This thread has been an indispensable education for me.

I did a thorough search for information on building a rotary capper and could find nothing. Sure, I may have missed something, but it looks like Stoney1 is offering the only tutorial on the net.

Thank you for the information and tutorial!
Ron

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-02, 08:47

I am new to this forum, and muzzle loading,  and this post is great,( other than the argument). I will build one of these soon. I will try cutting the brass circles with a hole saw. I know how difficult it is to put together a "how to" post and this one is excellent. Thank You
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-02, 15:06

@azal wrote:
I am new to this forum, and muzzle loading,  and this post is great,( other than the argument). I will build one of these soon. I will try cutting the brass circles with a hole saw. I know how difficult it is to put together a "how to" post and this one is excellent. Thank You
azal
 It's not done yet, there are 3 more posts before completion. Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad that it's interesting to the members.
God bless:
Stoney1

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-03, 13:28

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Solder10
Rotary Capper - Page 2 Solder12
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 09:21

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Cappers_1

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Cappers_2

Rotary Capper - Page 2 Capper

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Last edited by Buck Conner on 2018-08-04, 09:35; edited 1 time in total
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 09:31

wow some of those contraptions look like they would be a headache to build!
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 09:45

Many of the manufacturers used craftsmen from other trades like silversmith and coppersmiths plus this was the age of invention (industrial age - machines). Inventions of anything one could think of were popping up everywhere.  I have a capper made back in the 1950's by a craftsman Lynn Candberry from Philadelphia, use to see him at Friendship on traders row, he sold cappers. Some look like Stoney's and like others seen today sold by TOTW, Log Cabin Shop, and most traders except just 60-65 years earlier. All these designs are from before the American Civil War, do a little research on European accessories and you'll see some really neat designs for percussion cap holders from different makers of firearms. I get a chance i'll show you a few pictures from one of Bannerman & Sons Catalogs, I have several of the 1930 to 1935 catalogs selling Civil War items, cappers included.

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 12:35

@Buck Conner wrote:
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Buck
 Friction holds them in. If made properly, the friction of the hole and that slot that you cut to the hole will keep them put. Being that the slot is not perfect makes it just tight enough to keep the caps in. I know that over the years, it WILL loosen up, but a drop of water on each slot, a few hours before you want to load it with caps, will shrink the slot/hole just enough to tighten it back up. I can tell you this. I have the one that I made back in 1977 and (even though it barely gets used) it still holds 8-#11 caps just fine. I live in North East PA. and our climate is very diverse, but that doesn't seem to affect it?
Stoney1

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 13:27

Thats a big mistake that I found out last week lol. I made some simple leather cappers, cut the shape, punched holes, stained the leather and then found that the holes were to small once the stain dried lol. Live and learn.
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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 14:15

@FrontierGander wrote:
Thats a big mistake that I found out last week lol. I made some simple leather cappers, cut the shape, punched holes, stained the leather and then found that the holes were to small once the stain dried lol.  Live and learn.
Frontier
 Not sure what you're trying to say? Sorry. Are you telling me that my design is bad?  I guess I'm just a little "cornfused"? Question
Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 14:33

scratch no dave, I simply was stating that I once made the mistake of punching holes for a leather capper, then taking the mistake of dying the leather and finding out that the hole shrunk after it dried.

You mentioned using water to tighten up the holes once they loosen up over time.
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PostSubject: Re: Rotary Capper   Rotary Capper - Page 2 Empty2018-08-04, 15:28

@FrontierGander wrote:
scratch no dave, I simply was stating that I once made the mistake of punching holes for a leather capper, then taking the mistake of dying the leather and finding out that the hole shrunk after it dried.

You mentioned using water to tighten up the holes once they loosen up over time.
Frontier
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 Try this. Get a piece of 1/8" brass tubing (it measures about.160" on the OD... perfect.) and cut it into 1/4" long pieces with a mini tubing cutter, or whatever you have? Then, after you punch all your holes, shove a piece through each hole and out the back leaving an equal amount on each side. Next dye your leather and let it dry. Then pull out the brass pieces and coat the whole thing in Aussie Leather Conditioner or Mink Oil. Once that dries, the holes will stay the right size for years!
Dave

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