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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Is 70 grains enough?   April 12th 2018, 7:23 pm

My old CVA Big Bore Mountain rifle groups quite well if I don't go over 70 grains of pyrodex.  My question--Is this enough to be effective on white tail?  My shots are usually at about 50 yds.  My main concern (second to safety) is wounding game and not killing it. Question
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 12th 2018, 7:31 pm

Yes I used 70gr 3fg goex and a round ball on a bull elk last year. Whitetail will be no issue at all. Put it right behind the shoulder.

What thickness of patch are you using?
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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 12th 2018, 9:02 pm

Don't really know and don't have a mike.  I use pillow ticking and just make sure that it takes considerable pressure to seat the ball in a clean barrel.
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Old Smoke

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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 3:58 am

My .54 likes 70gr of T7.  Most accurate round ball load for it.  She kills deer on the spot out 75 yards just fine.  Probably a tad further, but I'm not so good with iron sights!
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 4:18 am

My wife won't tolerate more than 60 grains of 3f in her beloved 54 caliber.  I even went so far as making her an 80 grain measure and labeling it as 60 grains, but she smelled the rat.

Good news is, it's accurate as a snake bite and she's never needed a second shot on deer. By choice she holds her shots to 50 yards, and in fact we've never recovered a ball from a deer. All broadside shots, but far as I know those balls are still whistling along after complete pass-throughs.

Your 70 grain load sounds like a magnum charge to her!  Very Happy
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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 5:40 am

Thanks fellow front stuffers.  I appreciate the help.
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burlesontom



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 1:59 pm

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My wife won't tolerate more than 60 grains of 3f in her beloved 54 caliber.  I even went so far as making her an 80 grain measure and labeling it as 60 grains, but she smelled the rat.

Now thats funny right there. I don't care who you are. What a Face

But yes 70grs of 3F should be plenty. Remember the civil war load was 60grs and a 600gr bullet. And it killed like crazy.

When I shoot 70grs or above I use a ball patch in the bore first with the patched ball over the top of that. It works like a firewall and my ball patches come out looking so good you could almost reuse them. The firewall patch is usually pretty burnt up.
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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 2:16 pm

Yeah, I loved the phony 60 grain measure thing.   Great idea, that extra patch for a firewall.  I never tried that but I do use a pinch of bees nest often.  That works well also.
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burlesontom



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 13th 2018, 8:39 pm

I thought about the bee nest thing per Sam Fadala in the BP shooting manual. But me and wasp don't get along so I tried the patch before the patched ball and it works just dandy for protecting the ball patch. And a 70gr load lets you get 100 shots per pound of powder.

I have read that the indians were noted for using light charges in their guns way back when. It worked for them.
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Old Smoke

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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 14th 2018, 5:35 am

@BrownBear wrote:
My wife won't tolerate more than 60 grains of 3f in her beloved 54 caliber.  I even went so far as making her an 80 grain measure and labeling it as 60 grains, but she smelled the rat.

Good news is, it's accurate as a snake bite and she's never needed a second shot on deer. By choice she holds her shots to 50 yards, and in fact we've never recovered a ball from a deer. All broadside shots, but far as I know those balls are still whistling along after complete pass-throughs.

Your 70 grain load sounds like a magnum charge to her!  Very Happy
Ha!   I initially tried shooting it with 100 grs, which was fine if you didn't mind the stiff recoil and 8" groups at 100 yards!  

70 grs is plenty and accurate for my needs.
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 14th 2018, 6:05 am

@Old Smoke wrote:
Ha!   I initially tried shooting it with 100 grs, which was fine if you didn't mind the stiff recoil and 8" groups at 100 yards!  

70 grs is plenty and accurate for my needs.

Yeah. It depends a lot on the rifle and the twist rate of the barrel.  In my experience accuracy is in the largest part due to rifling depth. With shallow rifling like on most TC's (except their limited production Round Ball barrels), accuracy can go south if you try to push a ball with the wrong patch too fast.  Lotta folks get their nickers up tight in their crack over TC's "compromise" 1:48 twist, but they're spoofing themselves.  The compromise is that shallow rifling.  Original Hawken rifles were all 1:48 twist, as were a whole lot of other makes. 

But they all had deeper rifling. Slow twists are all the rage today, but they're modern fashion rather than historic fact.  In my experience (and I have several of them) many slow twist barrels don't like light powder charges, while up around 1:48 they're accurate over a whole range of powder charges from very light to heavy.  My 62 cal Leman has around a 1:80 twist, but I don't recall the zact number. Sad to say it's a very light rifle with a tiny butt stock, and if you drop below 100 grains of 2f, you can't hit a dinner plate at 75 yards.  Get it up over 120 grains (and 140 grains is best), and it will drop balls into 3" or smaller groups at 100 yards.  You got not only the recoil, but that tiny hooked butt to test your enthusiasm for small groups.
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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 14th 2018, 8:11 am

Thanks Brown Bear--When I get time and a decent day I'm going out and do a lot more experimenting.  I've used this rifle for many years and gotten quite a few white tails with it but it just seems like it's grouping has changed some over the years.  It couldn't be possible that I'm changing some now that I'm in my eighties.   Yeah, as you probably know, my old CVA is a 1:66 twist.  I only have two muzzleloaders, both CVA's so I don't really know much about how deep or shallow rifling affects the groups.  I enjoy reading posts from you folks that really have a bunch of experience with different set-ups.   Thanks again.
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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 14th 2018, 11:06 am

You know, one of the biggest reasons for accuracy changes (even bigger than old eyes like mine and yours!) is nipple erosion.  If you haven't changed nipples in a few years you might try that. Lots cheaper than new glasses!
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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 14th 2018, 1:12 pm

Thanks again BrownBear.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 16th 2018, 7:51 am

I have used 70gr 3fg Goex and a round ball on deer, antelope and elk for years, step it up for larger game. Haven't had any issues with this load.

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Overdue Bill



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PostSubject: Re: Is 70 grains enough?   April 16th 2018, 9:28 am

Thanks Buck.  That seems to be the general consensus.   I have received a bunch of responses and no one thinks 70 grains is to little.
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