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 What's the reaL STORY?

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stoney1
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stoney1

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 8:31 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:
To make it as easy as possible for the doctor. Tell him to buy Goex 3F and use it in the pan and the main charge.

Better yet since he's a doctor and can afford it. Buy Swiss 3F.
Hi Pete
 Actually that had been suggested, and I considered it, but then your other thought came to mind. He's a Doctor, he can afford it. I still won't dick him on Swiss, that's about $35.00 a LB. here. No matter how much money you have you still don't want to get screwed.
I remember buying Goex for $5.00 a pound a looooong time ago!
I didn't charge him a cent for building the rifle. I just billed him for the kit and whatever I spent out of my pocket for building supplies.
I have a beautiful period knife that I'm working on today. I can't wait to get it done. It's driving me crazy, I've been at it for a week! Any way, thanks for your input.
God bless:
Stoney

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 9:38 am

I got a deal from Coonies on Goex about 15 years ago, had to purchase at least (6) cases mixed at $4.00 a pound. Our club and a few other dealers and myself got (100) cases but we had to haul it. That was the scary part coming across Kansas in a rain and lighting storm.  

I still have a half dozen cans of 3FFF, shoot it in everything, even my cartridge guns. You should see guys standing around when I shoot my 8MM Mauser at the range and they smell the smoke. One guy commented "No wonder they lost the war, hell you can smell them everytime they shoot ???"     :tup2    headslap

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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 9:56 am

@stoney1 wrote:
@OldMtnMan wrote:
To make it as easy as possible for the doctor. Tell him to buy Goex 3F and use it in the pan and the main charge.

Better yet since he's a doctor and can afford it. Buy Swiss 3F.
Hi Pete
 Actually that had been suggested, and I considered it, but then your other thought came to mind. He's a Doctor, he can afford it. I still won't dick him on Swiss, that's about $35.00 a LB. here. No matter how much money you have you still don't want to get screwed.
I remember buying Goex for $5.00 a pound a looooong time ago!
I didn't charge him a cent for building the rifle. I just billed him for the kit and whatever I spent out of my pocket for building supplies.
I have a beautiful period knife that I'm working on today. I can't wait to get it done. It's driving me crazy, I've been at it for a week! Any way, thanks for your input.
God bless:
Stoney
 You'rea good friend to him. Swiss is getting out of hand but all powder prices are going up. There was a time when I used nothing but Swiss but it was half the price it is now. It is the best though.

I had good results using 3F in both the pan and main charge. It sure makes things simple. I couldn't tell the difference in using 4F in the pan. I'm sure it's a tiny amount of time but I couldn't feel it.

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Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 11:09 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:
@OldMtnMan wrote:
To make it as easy as possible for the doctor. Tell him to buy Goex 3F and use it in the pan and the main charge.

Better yet since he's a doctor and can afford it. Buy Swiss 3F.
Hi Pete
 Actually that had been suggested, and I considered it, but then your other thought came to mind. He's a Doctor, he can afford it. I still won't dick him on Swiss, that's about $35.00 a LB. here. No matter how much money you have you still don't want to get screwed.
I remember buying Goex for $5.00 a pound a looooong time ago!
I didn't charge him a cent for building the rifle. I just billed him for the kit and whatever I spent out of my pocket for building supplies.
I have a beautiful period knife that I'm working on today. I can't wait to get it done. It's driving me crazy, I've been at it for a week! Any way, thanks for your input.
God bless:
Stoney
 You'rea good friend to him. Swiss is getting out of hand but all powder prices are going up. There was a time when I used nothing but Swiss but it was half the price it is now. It is the best though.

I had good results using 3F in both the pan and main charge. It sure makes things simple. I couldn't tell the difference in using 4F in the pan. I'm sure it's a tiny amount of time but I couldn't feel it.
Thanks Pete.
 I try to be good to every one. I was raised that way. Yes, one powder would be better, but as a purist, I've always been 2F charge and 4F in the pan so it's hard to break that cycle. Thanks again. I'd like to show you the finished rifle, but I can't figure out how to post pictures? Frontier Gander always does it for me, and I've imposed on him enough with this tutorial. If you send an email to my address davesmusic13@gmail.com. I can reply with pics. to you from there.
God bless:
Dave

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 12:52 pm

Purist to what? Do you think the mountain men or hunters in general back in those days used two powders? I doubt anybody did as only one powder was available. So, doing it the traditional way would be with one powder.

BTW..Nothing purist about Pyrodex or duplex loads either.  Wink

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Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:14 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
Purist to what? Do you think the mountain men or hunters in general back in those days used two powders? I doubt anybody did as only one powder was available. So, doing it the traditional way would be with one powder.

BTW..Nothing purist about Pyrodex or duplex loads either.  Wink
Pete
 Thank you. I myself, have never used Pyrodex. I provided  it for my doctor for safety reasons (not as volatile). I have never used a Duplex load either, never even heard of it until this discussion?
 Are you certain that 3Fg will ignite in the pan? If so, how would you measure it against real BP.? I have him using 90 grains of Pyrodex per load in his percussion. I know that the finer the BP the more explosive, so would he use the same amount of 3Fg as 2Fg? Thanks. Maybe I went overboard on the "purist" comment?? Embarassed 
God bless:
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:22 pm

I have and have had original flinters that have touch holes bigger than anything we have today, some are from use but most were made larger to use one powder for charging and shooting. In the time of battle one wouldn't have time to fumble around for another horn.


Osborn Russell wrote that most of the mountain men he has encountered carried two horns, (1) was with his shooting bag and (1) was a larger horn used as a storage horn, no mention of a priming horn. Like Pete mentioned the powders available were very poor with only a couple available, one for shooting cannon and a finer powder for hand and shoulder arms. There are many accounts from men like Carson, Medina, Toblin and others that when questioned about their equipment only mention one powder horn and sometimes mention a storage horn, nothing of a priming horn.


Some museums have examples of powders, there is no way from the size of the blasting/cannon powder of working in a sporting arm. 


"A" or "blasting grade" powder - the preferred powder of choice for fireworks/cannon and blasting.


"g" or "sporting grade" powder - preferred for firearms use being finer.
__________________________________________________

FIREARMS HISTORY, TECHNOLOGY & DEVELOPMENT
How powder grain sizes are classified in the US.

The primary difference between the 'A' and 'g' grades is in the manufacturing process. Both are manufactured in the same way initially, but at the end, the 'g' grade powders are polished in a tumbler with a tiny amount of graphite, to polish the grains and make them flow easily. The 'A' grade powders are not usually tumbled, and if they are tumbled, it is just for a short amount of time to remove any sharp edges.

Now on to the mystery behind the letter 'F'. The letter 'F' stands for "Fine" and dates back to the time when the grains were designated F or C (for "coarse" grains). The number of times the letter F occurs in the powder grade shows the average size of the powder grains. The more times the letter F occurs in the name, the smaller the grains. What this means is that the size of "FFFg" grains are smaller than "FFg" grains, and "FFFFg" is even smaller than these two. When black powder is manufactured, the grains are sorted through sieves of standard sizes and classified that way.

Note: the first 3 grades are intended for use with cannon. The A-1, A-2 and A-3 grades are generally used for artillery blanks used for firing gun salutes. Fg is made for using in large bore rifles and shotguns (8-gauge and larger).

FFg powder is used historical for small arms such as muskets, fusils, rifles and large pistols. FFFg powder is for smaller caliber rifles (below .45 caliber), pistols, cap-and-ball revolvers, derringers etc. FFFFg and FFFFFg are mostly used as priming powder for flintlocks in later years or found in Europe. 

There are two grades of powder intended to be used in a historical re-enactment and the FFg powder was meant for the main powder charge of a flintlock rifle, while the FFFFg powder was intended to be used in the pan of the flintlock as a priming powder. (Modern thinking).

Similarly, the A-grade powders are classified into various grain size ranges (FA, FFA, FFFA, FFFFA, FFFFFA, FFFFFFA, FFFFFFFA, Meal-D and Meal-F (Meal Fine) and Meal XF (Meal Extra-Fine)). However, since these A-grade powders are intended for fireworks and quarries, we will not study them here.

______________________________________

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:33 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
Purist to what? Do you think the mountain men or hunters in general back in those days used two powders? I doubt anybody did as only one powder was available. So, doing it the traditional way would be with one powder.

BTW..Nothing purist about Pyrodex or duplex loads either.  Wink

Back in the late 1930's a collector friend of my father wanted to have a finer powder for a silver mounted small horn that he called a priming horn. Later found it wasn't a priming horn it was a salt or sugar horn. Either way, don't get wet or its junk...  scratch


My father and his friend decided to grind 2FF into something like our 4FFFF of today, went to the drug store and purchased a mortar and pestle. Spent a lot of time grinding the powder in their new glass toy, later my father said that was a waste of time.

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:39 pm

Buck
 Thanks??? So, after we wade through all this technical BS, what is the best option? Thank you.
Stoney
@Buck Conner wrote:
I have and have had original flinters that have touch holes bigger than anything we have today, some are from use but most were made larger to use one powder for charging and shooting. In the time of battle one wouldn't have time to fumble around for another horn.


Osborn Russell wrote that most of the mountain men he has encountered carried two horns, (1) was with his shooting bag and (1) was a larger horn used as a storage horn, no mention of a priming horn. Like Pete mentioned the powders available were very poor with only a couple available, one for shooting cannon and a finer powder for hand and shoulder arms. There are many accounts from men like Carson, Medina, Toblin and others that when questioned about their equipment only mention one powder horn and sometimes mention a storage horn, nothing of a priming horn.


Some museums have examples of powders, there is no way from the size of the blasting/cannon powder of working in a sporting arm. 


"A" or "blasting grade" powder - the preferred powder of choice for fireworks/cannon and blasting.


"g" or "sporting grade" powder - preferred for firearms use being finer.
__________________________________________________

FIREARMS HISTORY, TECHNOLOGY & DEVELOPMENT
How powder grain sizes are classified in the US.

The primary difference between the 'A' and 'g' grades is in the manufacturing process. Both are manufactured in the same way initially, but at the end, the 'g' grade powders are polished in a tumbler with a tiny amount of graphite, to polish the grains and make them flow easily. The 'A' grade powders are not usually tumbled, and if they are tumbled, it is just for a short amount of time to remove any sharp edges.

Now on to the mystery behind the letter 'F'. The letter 'F' stands for "Fine" and dates back to the time when the grains were designated F or C (for "coarse" grains). The number of times the letter F occurs in the powder grade shows the average size of the powder grains. The more times the letter F occurs in the name, the smaller the grains. What this means is that the size of "FFFg" grains are smaller than "FFg" grains, and "FFFFg" is even smaller than these two. When black powder is manufactured, the grains are sorted through sieves of standard sizes and classified that way.

Note: the first 3 grades are intended for use with cannon. The A-1, A-2 and A-3 grades are generally used for artillery blanks used for firing gun salutes. Fg is made for using in large bore rifles and shotguns (8-gauge and larger).

FFg powder is used historical for small arms such as muskets, fusils, rifles and large pistols. FFFg powder is for smaller caliber rifles (below .45 caliber), pistols, cap-and-ball revolvers, derringers etc. FFFFg and FFFFFg are mostly used as priming powder for flintlocks in later years or found in Europe. 

There are two grades of powder intended to be used in a historical re-enactment and the FFg powder was meant for the main powder charge of a flintlock rifle, while the FFFFg powder was intended to be used in the pan of the flintlock as a priming powder. (Modern thinking).

Similarly, the A-grade powders are classified into various grain size ranges (FA, FFA, FFFA, FFFFA, FFFFFA, FFFFFFA, FFFFFFFA, Meal-D and Meal-F (Meal Fine) and Meal XF (Meal Extra-Fine)). However, since these A-grade powders are intended for fireworks and quarries, we will not study them here.

______________________________________
Thanks Buck
 After we wade through all of this technical BS, what is my best option?
Stoney

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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:41 pm

@stoney1 wrote:
@OldMtnMan wrote:
Purist to what? Do you think the mountain men or hunters in general back in those days used two powders? I doubt anybody did as only one powder was available. So, doing it the traditional way would be with one powder.

BTW..Nothing purist about Pyrodex or duplex loads either.  Wink
Pete
 Thank you. I myself, have never used Pyrodex. I provided  it for my doctor for safety reasons (not as volatile). I have never used a Duplex load either, never even heard of it until this discussion?
 Are you certain that 3Fg will ignite in the pan? If so, how would you measure it against real BP.? I have him using 90 grains of Pyrodex per load in his percussion. I know that the finer the BP the more explosive, so would he use the same amount of 3Fg as 2Fg? Thanks. Maybe I went overboard on the "purist" comment?? Embarassed 
God bless:
Stoney

I believe Pyrodex has a bit more power than Goex. For his 90gr of Pyrodex RS i'd use 80gr of Goes 3F. If he thinks the recoil feels a bit softer than the Pyrodex go to 90gr of Goex.

Yes, 3F will ignite the pan power just fine. It's all I used. Graf's and Sons sells Goex for $18.xx. Hazmat and shipping will boost the price to $24 or so. They have a 5lb minimum order. What is he paying for Pyrodex?

btw..Pyrodex has the same three ingredients that Goex has, but also has some other stuff added to it. It can blow if you're not careful. I had a friend who was loading cartridges with Pyrodex and got careless and it blew. We believe it was from the dust from Pyro that ignited it.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.


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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 4:51 pm

@stoney1 wrote:
Buck
 Thanks??? So, after we wade through all this technical BS, what is the best option? Thank you.

YOU BLOW ONE UP, YOU'LL THINK "TECHNICAL BS"

After we wade through all of this technical BS, what is my best option?
Stoney

Do as Pete has suggested, your Doc going hunting maybe but most likely won't find the time. 

Like the old saying - KISS - "keep it simple stupid".

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 5:32 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:
@OldMtnMan wrote:
Purist to what? Do you think the mountain men or hunters in general back in those days used two powders? I doubt anybody did as only one powder was available. So, doing it the traditional way would be with one powder.

BTW..Nothing purist about Pyrodex or duplex loads either.  Wink
Pete
 Thank you. I myself, have never used Pyrodex. I provided  it for my doctor for safety reasons (not as volatile). I have never used a Duplex load either, never even heard of it until this discussion?
 Are you certain that 3Fg will ignite in the pan? If so, how would you measure it against real BP.? I have him using 90 grains of Pyrodex per load in his percussion. I know that the finer the BP the more explosive, so would he use the same amount of 3Fg as 2Fg? Thanks. Maybe I went overboard on the "purist" comment?? Embarassed 
God bless:
Stoney

I b3elieve Pyrodex has a bit more power than Goex. For his 90gr of Pyrodex RS i'd use 80gr of Goes 3F. If he thinks the recoil feels a bit softer than the Pyrodex go to 90gr of Goex.

Yes, 3F will ignite the pan power just fine. It's all I used. Graf's and Sons sells Goex for $18.xx. Hazmat and shipping will boost the price to $24 or so. They have a 5lb minimum order. What is he paying for Pyrodex?

btw..Pyrodex has the same three ingredients that Goex has, but also has some other stuff added to it. It can blow if you're not careful. I had a friend who was loading cartridges with Pyrodex and got careless and it blew. We believe it was from the dust from Pyro that ignited it.
Pete
 I think I paid around $23.00 for a pound of 2FF Pyrodex last year for him?
 I'll take your recommendation and just get one pound of 3FFF tomorrow.
I didn't know that Pyro and Goex had the same ingredients? It seems to makes sense, I just didn't know it.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 5:40 pm

@Buck Conner wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:
Buck
 Thanks??? So, after we wade through all this technical BS, what is the best option? Thank you.

YOU BLOW ONE UP, YOU'LL THINK "TECHNICAL BS"

After we wade through all of this technical BS, what is my best option?
Stoney

Do as Pete has suggested, your Doc going hunting maybe but most likely won't find the time. 

Like the old saying - KISS - "keep it simple stupid".
Thanks Buck
 We'll go with the 3F Goex and dial it back a smidge. I have NO intentions of Blowing one up, that's why I don't mess with the stuff, I know what I know and I leave it at that. I get my advice here. I'm not stupid enough to dick with something that has the potential to kill me or someone I know. I didn't live to be 69 years old by being a precocious idiot.
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 5:52 pm

Everybody who shoots with BP knows to be careful. (well almost) I'm sure you trained the doc to be safe.

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I'm addicted to black powder.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 5th 2018, 6:10 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
Everybody who shoots with BP knows to be careful. (well almost) I'm sure you trained the doc to be safe.
Pete
 Thanks for the info. I hope I trained him to be safe? I pounded it into his head for hours last year when we sighted in the .50 cal. percussion I built for him. Thank you again, I always know where to come for good advice. Very Happy
God bless:
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 6th 2018, 2:39 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
Everybody who shoots with BP knows to be careful. (well almost) I'm sure you trained the doc to be safe.
Pete
Just a note of update. I went to my buddy's gun shop and got a pound of Graf and sons 3FFF. MAN... the can sure doesn't look like a pound!!??? I remember when I got Goex in a rectangular can that looked like a paint thinner can, but at least that LOOKED like a pound! We'll see how it goes? I live in the suburbs so I can't shoot here, No but I can try flashing the pan out on my deck just to be sure that this is gonna' work? cheers Thanks again.
God bless:
Stoney

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 6th 2018, 3:47 pm

I prime from my "main horn"...and do all of my shooting with 2F
If...
You have a quality lock...
Sharp flint...
Clean vent...
Good "Lock Geometry"...
And wipe the pan , flint and frizzen after each shot...
Priming with 2F or 3F shouldn't be a problem.
And , yes I understand that I said "If".....
Andy

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 6th 2018, 4:05 pm

How much did the Graf & Sons powder cost you? It should have been a little less than the Goex. I think it runs around $16 on their website. I bought Elephant brand powder from them back in the early 1990s and while some have stated its not very good powder I never noticed. It went off and sent the ball down range and hit the target just like the Goex I had. And back then I paid around $6 a pound IIRC. I still have some too.

Thats one of the great things about BP. Keep it dry and it last forever. At least a couple of centuries anyway. The NRA always cautioned if have a rifle from the revolutionary war and its loaded and primed from that time consider it ready to go and treat it with the same respect as if you had just loaded it.

My bud kept a 36 Colt Navy replica loaded for a year and then tested it. Only one cylinder sounded a little weak. The other five gave a nice big instant boom. Even the weak charge went right off with no hangfire.
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 6th 2018, 7:07 pm

Gentlemen
 I paid $26.45 for a pound of Graf and sons 3FFF powder. My buddy doesn't sell Goex? I thought he did. He said the Goex is a little "weaker" than Grafs? I suspect that he just gets a better deal on Grafs? I've known the guy since 1977. He's a good guy, BUT he's a businessman FIRST!!! And business people put money ahead of friendship. I don't feel bad, he charges everyone that price.
Now... before y'all start goin' off about how much I paid; as opposed to online, remember, I don't have a reason to spend $16.00 a pound for 5 pounds of powder, nor can I afford it and I don't care to? This is for someone else, and he just wants to be able to shoot and hunt. If he wants to buy 10 pounds of BP later, I'll tell him where to get it; cheaper. I don't shoot anymore due to my stroke, so any amount of powder over of a pan full would be a waste of money for me.
 I have a half a pound of 2FF in my horn from 1977, and (I believe) she'll still Blow, so I'm good....IF I did decide to go kill some paper! I'll just grind up about a teaspoon full for my Fraknenflint pan and have at it. Thanks again guys.
God bless:
Stoney

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patocazador

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 7th 2018, 8:03 am

I like Graf's (Schuetzen) powder a little bit better than GOEX. It seems more uniform in the granulation. Of course, the slight price difference helps too.

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stoney1
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 7th 2018, 8:35 am

@patocazador wrote:
I like Graf's (Schuetzen) powder a little bit better than GOEX. It seems more uniform in the granulation. Of course, the slight price difference helps too.
Mornin' Bob
 I didn't know that Grafs was made by Schuetzen? I thought it was it's own company? I never really looked at my powder? If it went "BANG" it was good enough for me.  cheers I know when I told my buddy at the gun shop that I bought Pyrodex for my Doctor last year, I thought he was going to scream... and the Eye rolls he gave me, said it all !  No I guess I know what he thinks about sub.!
 He started his BP business back in the 70's when I got into it and there was NOTHING but real BP, NO subs. then, so I understand his response. headslap    I have to get back to work on my hunting and priming horns and the new knife that I'm making.
I can't get away from my hospital and doctor's long enough to get anything done? I get about 8 emails a day from one or the other?
Thanks.
God bless:
Dave

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 7th 2018, 9:21 am

I have only had a chance to shoot some of the hottest black powder ever, "Green River Powder".  This made all the others take a backseat to this stuff, had aluminum powder in the mix, talk about fast WOW.

The company didn't last very long (a few years at most) all because of an employee not following the safety rules, (he was a GRRW employee and worked at the powder manufacturing plant part time). 

Cleated heels on biker boots and black powder don't mix, it was figured that's what made the spark and all hell broke loose ending the short lived business. I saw one of their powder cans for sale a few weeks ago, it sold to a collector for over $1,000.00 bucks.

SEE: https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t10846-green-river-black-powder?highlight=green+river+blackpowder

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 7th 2018, 1:38 pm

Howdy Buck
 I remember that we discussed powder plant explosions in the past. I think I remember you talking about that one. I told you about the one here in Wapwallopen, PA. at the DuPont Powder Works.
 I CAN tell you that we had explosions and fires here when I was a kid from the dust while "putting up" hay in the barns.
 
I can't say from experience, but I've been told (by people I think would know?), that if you put aluminum powder in a flash pan, a good spark will set it off? I know they say that Aluminum Dust is VERY unstable, so it makes sense? It's not a good idea because Aluminum Dust is Toxic if you breath the vapors when it burns. Just my $.02
 I'm not a chemical engineer, so I can't confirm the Aluminum Dust Explosion theory? But AGAIN... it makes sense to me.
Stoney

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BrownBear



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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 9th 2018, 3:14 pm

@stoney1 wrote:
... if I have 4F in my pan and Pyrodex in the barrel, will the 4F create enough heat to ignite the Pyrodex? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer on this, or doesn't want to.

Never tried it that way, but only because I haven't had any reason to do it. I just put a couple of drizzles (3 grains each) of 4f from my pan charger down the bore before dropping in the Pyrodex. Then I charge the pan as normal with the 4f. Always works and ignition is as fast and reliable as with a straight load of black in the barrel.  It's costing me and "extra" 6 grains of 4f per shot, I've been able to afford that so far!   Very Happy
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Rick N Bama

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PostSubject: Re: What's the reaL STORY?   What's the reaL STORY? - Page 2 EmptyAugust 9th 2018, 5:27 pm

@BrownBear wrote:
@stoney1 wrote:
... if I have 4F in my pan and Pyrodex in the barrel, will the 4F create enough heat to ignite the Pyrodex? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer on this, or doesn't want to.

Never tried it that way, but only because I haven't had any reason to do it. I just put a couple of drizzles (3 grains each) of 4f from my pan charger down the bore before dropping in the Pyrodex. Then I charge the pan as normal with the 4f. Always works and ignition is as fast and reliable as with a straight load of black in the barrel.  It's costing me and "extra" 6 grains of 4f per shot, I've been able to afford that so far!   Very Happy

When my Grandson first got his Lyman Trade rifle all he had to use was Pyrodex.  When him & his Dad couldn't get it to fire they called and I headed over with a can of Goex 3f.  We used that in the Pan and yes, it did light the Pyrodex in the barrel.  We continued the Pyrodex in the barrel and the Goex in the Pan.  He uses KIK 2F in the barrel and Goex 4F in the pan.
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