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 Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?

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Rick N Bama

Rick N Bama

Male Number of posts : 95
Age : 71
Location : North Alabama smack dab in the heart of Tornado Alley!
Registration date : 2017-11-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 25th 2018, 7:17 pm

I know that Jon uses a wad or card over the powder charge, but what about the rest of you fellows?  I've been using a Felt Wad myself, but last week I ordered a bag of Veggie cards from TOW to try.  I shot a few rounds using them today just plinking off the porch and I think I'm going to like using them, at least under the flat base conicals like I was shooting today.  I'll probably continue to use the Felt Wads under RBs.
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 25th 2018, 7:29 pm

I do seem to like the veggie wads under a conical. Lately the home punched felt wads have been working really well for me. The veggies may be a better choice for stiffer loads.
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Rick N Bama

Rick N Bama

Male Number of posts : 95
Age : 71
Location : North Alabama smack dab in the heart of Tornado Alley!
Registration date : 2017-11-23

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 25th 2018, 8:12 pm

@FrontierGander wrote:
The veggies may be a better choice for stiffer loads.
That's the conclusion I came to myself today while using them with  the REALs and Maxi-Balls. I shot them with 65 to 80grs of the Pinnacle.
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PaulK

PaulK

Number of posts : 52
Age : 63
Location : NE Minnesota
Registration date : 2016-12-07

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 1:38 pm

@Rick N Bama wrote:
@FrontierGander wrote:
The veggies may be a better choice for stiffer loads.
That's the conclusion I came to myself today while using them with  the REALs and Maxi-Balls. I shot them with 65 to 80grs of the Pinnacle.
Are you guys using wads under prb's in your rifled guns? I know guys use them under prb's in Smoothbores to improve accuracy but so far I haven't found them to improve accuracy in the loads I've worked up. Plus, not using them eliminates one step in the loading process.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 1:43 pm

Some guys use a wad under the ball when they're blowing holes in the patches. They shouldn't be needed with the proper patch.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 203
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 2:33 pm

I only use a card wad over powder in my BP revolver and felt and card wad's in my smoothbore. I have three rifles for conical shooting, 2 50's and a 54. I've tried different over-powder wads and did not gain any accuracy in my rifles.  My personal experience is that if I am getting low velocity or erratic velocity with a conical it is too loose in the bore. A wad might increase or steady the velocity but it can't make the projectile any tighter. The rifling type also influences how a projectile behaves. The wad can seal up some gaps in grooves to bullet contact but again if the projectile fit properly there wouldn't be any. As for PRB, I find the right patch size. I would rather use two patches of different thickness to create what I need than to introduce a wad to the components. If the patches are tight around the ball and properly lubricated they will do their job without help. Even if you use more than one they are with the ball for the trip down the barrel and will both discard as the ball flies. If a wad turns, bows or looses its edge the gas will still get by it but in an uneven way. When the ball or projectile exits the bore the pressure wave is being retarded by the wad. Once the wad becomes unstable (very quickly and early in flight) the wave will pass it unevenly.  This exerts uneven pressure on the projectile and can effect its flight. Patches will fall away at once at a point where the muzzle pressure has already tapered off.  A conical without a wad is not subjected to any pressure variance from the wave being blocked or altered by an additional object (the wad). With all this said - some people have great luck with wad usage and find a way to get the accuracy and velocity they could not obtain without the wad. Again this is just my experience - in every case I was able to find a solution without a wad. The exception is the revolver and smoothbore. With the revolver I use the card wad solely for preventing a frontal spark, flame or heat wave from passing the ball and igniting the powder in a loaded cylinder. In the smoothbore it keeps shot from becoming severely deformed and of course keeps the powder and shot from combining in the barrel. Even a single ball in my smoothbore is slightly smaller than bore diameter in order for it to load. Without forcing the lead into lands and grooves there is no way to keep the projectile in the smoothbore sealing the bore. So, the wad becomes a necessity for the smoothbore with a roundball the way I use it with no patch. If there was a conical projectile that was a squeeze fit in a smoothbore I would experiment before relying on the wad in that case as the projectile may seal the bore. Others will have other opinions of course but this is my practice and belief.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 2:39 pm

Interesting. I never heard of using two patches for a PRB. Not a bad idea for fine-tuning for target work. Kind of fiddly for hunting.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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AndyinEverson

AndyinEverson

Male Number of posts : 76
Age : 50
Location : Washington state
Registration date : 2017-08-12

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 6:15 pm

For any of my rifles I just use powder , patch and ball...
Some of my smooth bores like a patch and ball and some like powder , shot wad , patch and ball.

Having shot and owned many different muzzleloaders both replica and antique...I can only say that if you want accuracy ....you need to try many different charges , ball sizes , patching sizes and material and yes even wads in your gun to see what works best out of your gun and how you shoot....
Andy

_________________
Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves... Very Happy
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Rick N Bama

Rick N Bama

Male Number of posts : 95
Age : 71
Location : North Alabama smack dab in the heart of Tornado Alley!
Registration date : 2017-11-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 6:45 pm

Well I think I've  learned a lot from this thread, but it does leave me with another question.  Now I'm no longer a hunter and when I was hunting it was never with a BP Firearm.  Let's suppose that I load my rifle with a PRB and it stays loaded all during our Deer season here in 'Bama which for Firearms starts on November 17 and lasts until February 10, 2019.  Fellows that's almost 3 months!  Now should I load my rifle on Nov 17 with a PRB with a lubed Patch is there a possibility that the lube will contaminate the powder if it stays loaded until Feb 10?  I would think that the Vegetable or even a dry Felt Wad would prevent that. 

I hope that I can soon be able to run my own tests to see if the wad affects accuracy any.  Soon as the weather cools, but it won't be doing that for a while yet Sad
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 203
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 7:51 pm

If you use the dry lube system you can leave it loaded for quite a long time. I am using sevin parts water to one part ballistoil. You let the patch material Dry horizontally and all of the water Evaporates leaving a barely detectable amount of oil. This will not contaminate the powder.
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 203
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 7:51 pm

If you use the dry lube system you can leave it loaded for quite a long time. I am using sevin parts water to one part ballistoil. You let the patch material Dry horizontally and all of the water Evaporates leaving a barely detectable amount of oil. This will not contaminate the powder.
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AndyinEverson

AndyinEverson

Male Number of posts : 76
Age : 50
Location : Washington state
Registration date : 2017-08-12

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 26th 2018, 8:07 pm

It may all depend on what you use for a lube and where you live and hunt...
For range use I use spit as a lube...hunting deer tallow or bear grease .
( the real stuff , not the product called bear grease )
Where I live and hunt in the Pacific Northwest...deer tallow or bear grease dose not dampen the powder if I leave my gun loaded.
Andy

_________________
Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves... Very Happy
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 4:47 am

With a PRB I use mink tallow or Jon's patch lube. I shoot it out every night of the hunt. Not worried about the lube on the powder but condensation.

However, our muzzleloader hunts are only 9 days.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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Rick N Bama

Rick N Bama

Male Number of posts : 95
Age : 71
Location : North Alabama smack dab in the heart of Tornado Alley!
Registration date : 2017-11-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 5:43 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:

However, our muzzleloader hunts are only 9 days.
 
Does that mean that you can't use a ML the rest of the season?
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 5:54 am

That's the muzzleloader season. We can also use it in rifle seasons but you can't do both for the same species. We also have a bear muzzleloader season but it's the same time and days as the deer and elk muzzleloader season. Most guys will do the bear hunt in the rifle season as it's a month long instead of 9 days.

We don't get to hunt as long or for as many animals as a lot of states. I heard one guy say he can hunt for a dozen deer. We have no muley's left if we could do that. I get to hunt for a buck every other year because I need points for the tag.

Bear and elk are the game we can hunt every year for.

There's a few exceptions like private land hunts and some special tags to control herds.

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Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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oneshot 1

oneshot 1

Number of posts : 589
Age : 65
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-04-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 6:01 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:
With a PRB I use mink tallow or Jon's patch lube. I shoot it out every night of the hunt. Not worried about the lube on the powder but condensation.

However, our muzzleloader hunts are only 9 days.

I see your point having a Fresh Load but I never worried about condensation and even here in Missouri long as I don't have sudden temperature change on the rifle.


The only time my rife wouldn't fire was camping waking up to Fog and that was with an Inline. And one time with Inline Shotgun after a rain.


oneshot
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Rick N Bama

Rick N Bama

Male Number of posts : 95
Age : 71
Location : North Alabama smack dab in the heart of Tornado Alley!
Registration date : 2017-11-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 8:03 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:
That's the muzzleloader season. We can also use it in rifle seasons but you can't do both for the same species. We also have a bear muzzleloader season but it's the same time and days as the deer and elk muzzleloader season. Most guys will do the bear hunt in the rifle season as it's a month long instead of 9 days.

We don't get to hunt as long or for as many animals as a lot of states. I heard one guy say he can hunt for a dozen deer. We have no muley's left if we could do that. I get to hunt for a buck every other year because I need points for the tag.

Bear and elk are the game we can hunt every year for.

There's a few exceptions like private land hunts and some special tags to control herds.
With Bow Season opening on Oct 15 and Gun Season closing on Feb 10 we can take a lot of Deer!  At one time the count was something like 170 or so, but of course there's no feasible way that would ever happen!  We don't have Bear or Elk although more & more Bear are being seen closer every year.  There have been several spotted this summer in the county to my north roaming through back yards.  I hope they don't come any closer to us!
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 9:02 am

@oneshot 1 wrote:
@OldMtnMan wrote:
With a PRB I use mink tallow or Jon's patch lube. I shoot it out every night of the hunt. Not worried about the lube on the powder but condensation.

However, our muzzleloader hunts are only 9 days.

I see your point having a Fresh Load but I never worried about condensation and even here in Missouri long as I don't have sudden temperature change on the rifle.


The only time my rife wouldn't fire was camping waking up to Fog and that was with an Inline. And one time with Inline Shotgun after a rain.


oneshot


I live in an apartment, so I have to take the gun inside every night. It's cold in the morning, so the temp change is enough for condensation to form on the bore.

A PRB load is cheap. Shooting it out at night is no big deal. I'd rather be safe than sorry during a hunt.

No concern how others do it. We all have our own way.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 10:43 am

never had an issue with condensation while hunting. I normally bring them back into the camper at the end of each evening hunt as well. This year I most likely keep them in the truck to free up some space. Hate having to haul everything back in the camper.

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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 11:05 am

@FrontierGander wrote:
never had an issue with condensation while hunting. I normally bring them back into the camper at the end of each evening hunt as well. This year I most likely keep them in the truck to free up some space. Hate having to haul everything back in the camper.

 That's because you hunt in the desert.  clown

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 11:16 am

scratch
Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? P1040810
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 11:25 am

Nice desert.

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Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 11:33 am

I've hunted your area so I know who hunts in a desert lol! Anything on the right side on the street is treeless rock land and you should be able to agree.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10342
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet?   Felt Wad or Veggie Card Under the Ball or Bullet? EmptyAugust 27th 2018, 11:45 am

Yes, it's called high desert. That's where the town is. Nobody hunts that. We're all in the mountains 15 min away.

Just talked to Lyman. No new GPR until the end of Oct.  Crying or Very sad
 
 Would love to do a custom Hawken, but too much money.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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