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 Green River Rifle Works makers marks

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fixer



Number of posts : 3
Age : 57
Location : Tacoma Wa
Registration date : 2018-09-16

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PostSubject: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-16, 19:35

I just picked up a Green River Rifle Works 54 hawken half stock with a makers mark of R.F.P. Can anyone identify this for me or tell me where to find the info?
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1775
Age : 111
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-16, 22:09

Ohhh.... Somebody turn on the Bat Signal - I mean Buck Signal!

Fixer, stand by...

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10418
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-17, 07:28

Buck will know.

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Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1775
Age : 111
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty
PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-17, 11:27

Fixer? I was wondering if you have a photo of the markings? I am curious and it might help.

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-17, 15:13

R.F.P. = Ron Paull - its an early makers mark used, he now uses the P in an oval circle.

Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_1122_crop-300x180

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Green River Rifle Works makers marks Camp

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fixer



Number of posts : 3
Age : 57
Location : Tacoma Wa
Registration date : 2018-09-16

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-17, 20:07

Thank you for the help.Cant post a pic right now but the mark is R.F.P. stamped semi-circular with R. being at the 10 oclock position,F. at 12 oclock and P. at 2 oclock right between the serial number[304] and the caliber 54.It was originally a flinter,converted to a caplock.The original lock comes with it and I will be putting it back on soon.The odd thing is that it is a right handed gun but the stock has a left handed cheek rest,not sure how that happened.Any ideas?How about the year it was made?When did Ron Paul work there?
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-18, 07:13

Right hand cheek piece - Use to see this once in a while not unusual according to Carl Walker (customer request), left hand shooters but wanted the gun to look close to normal (giving the owner the choice down the road if he changed his mind - the cheek piece could be removed). According to Doc White there were requests for guns like this as well as normal cheek pieces or no cheek pieces. 

I contacted Carl Walker today to see who ordered #304 and when it was built, he's on the road and will be home later today. We both agreed #304 is in the 1975 - 1978 range (I'll let you know as soon as Carl gets home).

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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-18, 15:26

Your Hawken 1/2 stock rifle was built as a left hand flinter originally per Mr. Walker, there was a lot of discussions about a left hand flinter and a shooter getting sparks in their face. At the time right hand flintlocks were all there was, no one built a left hand lock.

Just before this gun was ordered Carl had built #H300 Hawken 1/2 stock percussion for Robert Redford. The word got out about Redford's gun being built by GRRW and the orders started coming in for ones like it.

The original owner of #H304 was Walter Taylor, Gig Harbor, WA - built in June 1976. No other information was recorded.

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Green River Rifle Works makers marks Camp

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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1775
Age : 111
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-18, 15:30

Wow. That is some fine detective work. That is an interesting gun. 

Say hi to Carl for me next time you talk to him?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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fixer



Number of posts : 3
Age : 57
Location : Tacoma Wa
Registration date : 2018-09-16

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-18, 16:18

Thanks for all the great information Buck!I live in Tacoma WA. a stones throw away from where the original owner live4d when he purchased it in 1976.The man I bought it from lives even closer than that and has had the rifle for many years but did not remember anything about who he bought it from.Would this rifle be any more valuable being as it was made for a lefty before left hand models were available?What do you think the value would be in very good condition?
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-18, 19:08

Being made for a left hand shooter doesn't help the value (it may hurt the value a few bucks with the cheek piece being on the right side to some parties). Depending on its condition is what sets the value, I have seen them go for as little as $850 and as high as $1,500 - $1,800 in good used condition.

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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-19, 10:23

What's interesting is Hawken #H304 was sitting next to these guns on a rack that were stolen, probably missed in the robbery.

Green River Rifle Works makers marks Stolen-GRRW-rifles-Aug-76-Buckskin-Report

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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-20, 16:38

Great information Buck. I am curious. Was the Hawken built for Robert Redford the one he used in the movie Jeremiah Johnson?

I hope the OP can post some pictures. I would probably sand off the cheekpiece and refinsh the stock since I'm a "righty".
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-20, 16:57

The rifle was a poor look-a-like if you will of a Hawken. The rifle Redford got was a copy of Bridger's early rifle that Carl Walker copied at the time. Not the late Bridger that was offered by the Wyoming Historical Society 5 years later built by GRRW. 

On Redford's gun one of the background actors told him if he wanted an excellent copy of a Hawken to talk to Greg Roberts (manager of GRRW).  Carl said Redford came in the shop and all the employees were like little kids when they saw him. He placed his order came out and meet everyone and they never saw him again in person. When the rifle was compete Doc White and Greg delivered it to Sundance UT, Redford's place to hang out.



I'll find you some pictures of a Hawken without a cheek piece.

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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-20, 17:06

Having a rifle without a cheekpiece wouldn't bother me at all. I have Traditions Springfield Hawken with no CP and it shoulders and aims just fine.

I just finished redoing a T/C Renegade that was a Kit Gun that someone sorta screwed up building. I redid the stock and browned all the metal to get rid of the halfassed bluing it had. It has no cheekpiece either and shoulders just fine.

So did Redford actually shoot for sport like the rest of us? I know a lot of actors are active shooters and supporters of gun rights. Not everyone in Hollywood is an idiot. But most are. Evil or Very Mad :tdown2
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty
PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-20, 17:21

Green River Rifle Works makers marks Aaj-516_1-940x170
How's that for fast. This is what a right hand gun looks like.

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plmeek



Number of posts : 7
Age : 65
Location : Denver area
Registration date : 2016-03-11

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-21, 10:59

Fixer,

You have an interesting rifle.  I own Hawken SN 308 that was also built by Ron Paull.  The markings on the barrel are positioned the same as yours.
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_1120

As Buck said, GRRW built a number of left handed rifles, but they were limited by the available components back in the 1970s and had to compromise on some of their customer's requests.

Building a left hand rifle with a right hand lock was often one of those compromises.  Yours is the first flintlock I've heard of set up that way, but I know of several percussion arms they built like that.  I own a classic "Bridger" pattern Hawken with 1-1/8" barrel set up as a left handed rifle with right hand lock.
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_2033_2036
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_2045_crop

Ron Long had designed a left hand percussion lock and a left hand 1" breech plug by the beginning of 1977, but he never produced a left hand breech plug for a 1-1/8" barrel.  In this instance, GRRW's only choice to fill the customer's request was to build a left handed rifle with the right hand 1-1/8" breech and right hand lock.

The situation for your rifle was probably similar in that a suitable left hand flintlock may not have been available when your rifle was built.

Speaking of rifles with no cheek-piece, I have a GRRW Leman Indian Rifle that is left handed and has no cheek-piece.  Carl Walker says this was the way the customer ordered it.
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_2315_2321_low_res

For a while, GRRW advertised themselves as a "Custom Gun Shop".  Throughout their operations, they offered extra options that allowed customers to order customized rifles.  These left handed rifles fit in that category of custom guns.
Green River Rifle Works makers marks Jul75_Buckskin_Report_ad

The rifle in my collection with the most custom features is a Leman half stock that is left handed, has the optional lower entry pipe and unique pewter nose cap, extra fancy wood, double set triggers, weeping heart inlays, and a square cheek-piece rather than the beaver tail that GRRW usually put on their half stock Leman rifles.
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_1615_1616_composite_copy
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_1599_edit
Green River Rifle Works makers marks IMG_1601_copy

Did I mention the outstanding wood?

Phil Meek
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Green River Rifle Works makers marks   Green River Rifle Works makers marks Empty2018-09-21, 16:41

There you go folks, Phil has made GRRW a dream come true, he has a very nice collection and lots of information as well as records from the old firm. Thank you Phil for filling in the gapes. 

As Buck said, GRRW built a number of left handed rifles, but they were limited by the available components back in the 1970s and had to compromise on some of their customer's requests.

Carl went right to the stolen gun list because of this serial number, close but no cigar. He said if Ron Long hadn't come up with a left hand lock there would have been more flint or percussion guns built with right hand locks. 

Carl, Les Bennett, Ron Paull and Doc will be back at work by the end of the month with UT muzzle loading season over. These guys and as old as they are just keep rolling along. I have a few more clients need guns built, the smith's will be busy until summer 2019.

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