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 I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army

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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 20th 2018, 4:40 am

I'll be darned! 
 
One of my oldest, orneriest, best friends who swore he would never own a black powder fire arm has gone and bought himself his first! Its a beauty. 
 


I have always wanted one of these, but never got around to it. 
 
So, why am I writing about my friend's gun? lol He ASKED me to! He won't sign up for Facebook. He won't sign up for on-line forums. But, he WILL use me to use them for him. He has asked me to ask YOU for HIM about his new toy.
 
A little personality background on the new owner is appropriate as I think you will find it fun and helpful to understanding the mind-set behind his question. He has appeared in one of my stories here in the past. He was referred to by the nickname, 'Spartan,' in the thread, "The Worst Hunter in the World." So, we will just call him Spartan here, too.
 
Spartan collects old WWI and WWII rifles and Desert Storm/Shield .45 slide pistols. He's a Luddite. But, only to a point because he has always complained about wooden side-locks. They are too 'primitive' and 'inefficient' for him. 
 
For 30 plus years, it has been like this...
 
Spartan: "And if you are going to buy a black powder rifle to hunt with, get a modern in-line poly! And, use synthetic, modern powder!" 
 
Me: You really ought to try one of my side locks with original black powder. I know you. If you just give it a try, you'll be hooked!
 
Spartan: "uh-uh. I don't like all that Daniel Boone crap. I'll just use my Swedish Mauser."
 
Two years ago, we had the chance to hunt together, BUT, it fell during Muzzleloader season in Kentucky. HE WENT OUT AND BOUGHT A NEW CROSSBOW TO AVOID BUYING A BLACK POWDER RIFLE. (He is NOT a bowman. lol) Crossbows are legal during Muzzleloader season in Kentucky. This is funnier because I offered to loan him one of mine and he refused! He preferred to spend money to buy a crossbow he had never hunted with.
 
 
I love him like a brother and he makes me laugh! And, yes, he will see a copy of this story I am writing. I'll see to it. :Bat  Back to the new gun...
 
Spartan bought the ROA because of the following 'Spartan logic' reasons: 
 
1. It is BP and legal for some hunts.
 
2. It is designed based on a modern gun; the Ruger Blackhawk pistols. He has had good experiences with these.
 
3. It has more than "One dang shot!" - Spartan
 
4. "I want modern pistol power" - Spartan
 
5. It ain't a side lock.
 
6. It came with an extra conversion cylinder that shoots .45 Colt Longs
 
7. He has heard me talk a little enviously about the ROA.
 
8. He wants to carry it as a legal back up to his crossbow... Wait for it... That he still intends to use! 
 
We are scheduled to hunt in muzzleloader season again this year and I am DYING with amusement. AND, I think he has acquired a really nice firearm that I want him to enjoy using. 
 
So, here is his request for information: He does not want to load a simple round ball set up. Oh, no. I could help him with that. He wants the best, most lethal, legal, modern, synthetic set up possible that is specific to the Ruger Old Army. "What is that?" he wants to know. "Ask your black powder buddies for me?"
 
Does that mean conical? Sabot? Corn meal? Tea? Lard sealant? Nitroglycerine-Infused-Pyrodex? Lasers? Napalm? Flechette? I don't know. Laughing

He almost always is packing bigger, badder calibre guns in the field than I do. He does intend to use this as a BP hunter/back up. I know he is hunting deer with a crossbow/ROA back up this season with me. He might have visions of elk or bear dancing in his head later? I really don't know. 

Subtlety is not in Spartan's DNA. His philosophy is that 'if parts get blown off when I hit my meal, I won't have to go chase it down as far.' During our last deer hunt together, he used a Springfield Armory M1A with a Hornady 155 GR expanding point and blew a 6.5 inch exit hole. I was using my old .50 CVA Hawken.

So, what advice do you have for my highly entertaining, eccentric, and contradictory old friend? 

PS. The short version: He wants to know a hot, super impact, safe (for him) load for his new Ruger Old Army. Suggestions?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA


Last edited by Kentucky Colonel on September 28th 2018, 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

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Location : Indiana
Registration date : 2018-09-24

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 27th 2018, 5:26 pm

Use lead cast bullets in the 45 colt cylinder and just laugh when you put it in the box at the end of the day and get it out again the next.
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Mike in Oz

Mike in Oz

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 28th 2018, 7:58 am

lol he sounds like a cantankerous old bastard but good value at the same time!

Just be sure to document his exploits for the enquiring members of the forum.... Very Happy
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 28th 2018, 8:13 am

@Mike in Oz wrote:
lol he sounds like a cantankerous old bastard but good value at the same time!

Just be sure to document his exploits for the enquiring members of the forum.... Very Happy

Ditto

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Sparkitoff



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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 28th 2018, 8:21 am

The heaviest load I've used in a ROA is a cast 280 grain FNGC bullet over 30 grains Triple7 3F.  This fills the chambers to the edge. I didn't come up with the load and I don't know if it is safe according to the manufacturer. My friend who owns this revolver is in some ways similar to the man you described. He said, " Try this, try this..." with a big grin. A lot of recoil but they all went off and nothing fell apart on the revolver or me. It was not very accurate with this load and we presumed it was because the bullets were .454 and the ROA is really meant for .457. Recovered bullets in the sand showed rifling around them so they did obturate some but the rifling wasn't deep. I would not run to your friend with this load as a recommendation. I point it out so that you can feel out what he intends to do and have some reference that the revolver isn't going to come apart.
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

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Location : Indiana
Registration date : 2018-09-24

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 28th 2018, 8:30 am

I have one of the ROA. Mine is stainless steel.

I've shot about everything you can stuff in it and still spin the cylinder and a few I couldn't turn the cylinder. Had to shave a little off the top just to turn it so I could shoot them out of it.

So long as you stick with black powder I don't think you can fit enough in the cylinder to hurt that gun. Only way I've ever seen one damaged is NOT ENOUGH POWDER. A friend of mine dropped the hammer and it didn't go off. He thought he hit an empty and didn't check. The ball went half way down and when the next one went off it hit the ball already in the barrel and blew the site off the end of the barrel and the barrel was swelled up like it had a dog knot in it.

He cut the barrel off 2 inches shorter and kept using it last I heard.
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 5:24 am

I have never used corn meal in a load before. What or you using to measure it for consistency? And, what sealant are you using to prevent unintentional spark ignition?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

Male Number of posts : 24
Age : 63
Location : Indiana
Registration date : 2018-09-24

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 9:28 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
I have never used corn meal in a load before. What or you using to measure it for consistency? And, what sealant are you using to prevent unintentional spark ignition?
some people use it as a filler. No need to ever use it in a ROA.
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

Male Number of posts : 24
Age : 63
Location : Indiana
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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 9:31 am

I bought this mold to use in my Hawken but of course I had to try it in the ROA and it is about all I shoot out of it now. leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-45cal-200
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 11:48 am

Thanks, Jack. 

I read a ROA manual. They mentioned the corn meal and the lube/sealant after the charge is loaded.

Is this what you make and use instead of round balls in your ROA? Manual says .454 for conical.


_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3208
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 1:40 pm

When still shooting blackpowder cartridge we used corn meal as a filler in the cartridge case.  This is interesting KC on blackpowder revolvers.

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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

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Location : Indiana
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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 6:52 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Thanks, Jack. 

I read a ROA manual. They mentioned the corn meal and the lube/sealant after the charge is loaded.

Is this what you make and use instead of round balls in your ROA? Manual says .454 for conical.

That's it. I couldn't post a link with out the "whiskers" here yet.

I'll shoot a round ball to but I just like those. I shoot a 240 or more in my modern 44s but that leaves a little more room for powder in that old cap n ball. I don't remember exactly how much but I just kept increasing the measure until the ball just scraped the frame and then backed it down a little to be sure I could shoot them all out of it.

The straight wall to bullet connection I believe is plenty of insurance against a spark coming in that way and I grease all of those rings. So I don't use any filler or wad or any of that and leave the top clean so you don't get that grease splat from greasing the top of the ball.

They are accurate for me and give a good hard smack on what ever you shoot. You'll know the difference tween them and a ball on a plate of steel.
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 7:03 pm

Thanks, Jack. 

What do guys use to seal the load in the chamber if you were to seal the chamber? I want to have all the options available for Spartan

QUOTE FROM RUGER OA MANUAL:

[list=5]
[*]Using one of the commercially available bullet greases or other stiff grease (some automotive water pump greases have proven satisfactory), apply a liberal coating of grease to each chamber mouth so as to cover the bullet and seal the chamber. The purpose of this is twofold:

  1. To decrease leading and barrel fouling, and:
  2. To reduce the possibility of multi-chamber discharge (flash over)
    when firing.






[/list]

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 595
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 7:11 pm

Never have shot any conicals in mine. I have always used pre lubed felt wads with a 457 ball. Never had any issues with other cylinders going off. Is there anyway a guy could pan lube those bullets with something like SPG.

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   September 30th 2018, 9:54 pm

Yes, just like I do. That bullet above looks a lot like the REAL bullets I cast.
https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t11275-lubing-conical-bullets-the-easy-way
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 2:44 am

@FrontierGander wrote:
Yes, just like I do. That bullet above looks a lot like the REAL bullets I cast.
https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t11275-lubing-conical-bullets-the-easy-way

Thanks, FG. As I don't use conicals (yet- that is changing), I found that link a help. I did read that correctly, eh? Frontier's Anti-Rust & Patch lube will work as a cylinder sealant on the ROA (and all PC BP) revolvers?

How much is that Frontier's Anti-Rust & Patch lube going for for what size? I may need to get Spartan some. He is already griping about how troublesome loading the ROA is going to be. I am pretty sure he is hamming it up for entertainment value. His own! He saw the first story about him that was posted above. 

Spartan: I'll just go buy some cartridges for it."

Me: "Uh, you do know you bought a muzzleloader type weapon, right

Spartan: "I don't have time to get all that stuff. 

Me: Its not difficult. Powder, filler, ball or conical, seal. Number 10 or 11 percussion caps... A pistol stand would be helpful. A requirement, really, if you want to keep from banging your shiny new pistol around.

(A sound of disgust)

Spartan: I don't want to build a whole dang cartridge in the field every time I shoot. That's too complicated.

Me: You are thinking about it the wrong way. Its way easier than you are making it seem. You are not recreating a modern loading bench in the field. I know you hand load. This is far simpler. I can help.

Spartan: (Ignores me) I don't want round ball. I want conical. And I want cartridges.

Me: Uh, OK. I am not at all sure you can buy ready made cartridges for the ROA. I have seen some from Buffalo Arms for .36 and .44 for percussion cap revolvers. The paper they use is pretty cool for that. I have seen it used for Sharps rifles.

Spartan: My neighbor says I should use hornet's nest for paper. I know a guy who sells hornets nests.

Me: Uhhh... Is it the same guy that told you to use hornet's nest in your ROA? That is not going to be as good as using modern combustible paper, but I suppose we could try it. And, uh, I thought you wanted this to be easy? You are making this more difficult than it needs to be. 

(More sounds of disgust)

Me: (Laughing) Relax. I got you covered. You are going to love this when you stop being so ornery. And, I think with a little practice and a secure rest, you can get consistent to maybe 30 yards? I'm not sure.

Spartan: I am going to put a scope on it.

Me: Uh, sure, buddy. Let's just get it to make safe Boom-Boom first, eh?

At this rate, I might end up getting a stainless ROA cheap. I think he's nervous about the BP stuff. We gotta get him to the range and making smoke. I am pretty sure he will stop belly aching then.
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 10:18 am

Its only sale right now $10.95 for a 4oz jar. And yes, use a q tip and wipe a little bit around the round ball or conical after the projectiles are loaded.

Watch at the end when I reload the cylinder. Remember this was 3 years ago, the lube has changed colors since then lol.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 10:39 am

Nice shooting, a little "Kentucky Windage" and your bad guy is history.  :rtup

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BigAl52
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BigAl52

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 3:52 pm

yup that's how I did it with the BPCR bullets it works good. Little SPG in the double boiler and pour iut in the pan let it stand and you were good to go.

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

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PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 3:55 pm

KC sounds like he needs a drop in cylinder for shooting 45 colt. He doesn't sound like a patient person at all

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan

Male Number of posts : 24
Age : 63
Location : Indiana
Registration date : 2018-09-24

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 1st 2018, 8:20 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Thanks, Jack. 

What do guys use to seal the load in the chamber if you were to seal the chamber? I want to have all the options available for Spartan

QUOTE FROM RUGER OA MANUAL:
Bore butter or Crisco I guess. Some times I'll use wonder wads and grease them between the powder and ball. Seals it, lubes, and not as messy to load or to shoot.

Those bullets have TWO or more rings of bore butter around it AND it shaves off a little of that top ring. IF that don't seal it I don't think a smear of Crisco on top is going to.

Did I mention I fill those lube rings with bore butter? Or crisco but  usually bore butter. I lube a bunch at home and then put them in the plastic holder for the T/C maxi balls for reloads.
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edfarmer67



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Age : 51
Location : oregon
Registration date : 2018-10-26

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   October 27th 2018, 8:22 am

check out dick dastardly
he has designed bullets that carry lots of lube and shoots them out of his ruger old army
I also use them in the ruger old army. can also use same bullets in a 45 long colt shell with no problems.
i cant post links due to being new member.
google search Dick Dastardly big lube bullets

in his links you will see whyte leatherworks for bullets
you can order cast bullets from whyte leather works. i really like the EPP-UG 155 gr bullets for my ruger old armys.

i have 2 of them and love shooting them
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WASATCH CHARLIE



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Registration date : 2018-04-22

PostSubject: Re: I'll Be Darned: A Friend's Ruger Old Army   December 9th 2018, 11:53 pm

Been shooting my R.O.A.  for years with a'' stainless''  KIRST  .45 COLT   (known  Incottectly as LONG).
A pleasure to shoot........the ROA barrel is the SAME barrel as used on the BLACKHAWK.

I would NOT use smokeless in the original cylinder but RUGER  tested  theirs ,loaded  with BULLSEYE......the gun just can not be damaged  by any modern,over the counter,available to the public  powder( RUGERS words NOT mine) there WAS issues with a ''flamethrower'' exiting thru the nipples......
                                             JUST SAYING,THE ROA is STRONG.

I have shot R.B.,and LEE mold cast.r.e.a.l. projectiles of pure lead . the R.B. are more accurate....
         its an excellent  handgun,regardless of what one loads and shoots.....
 the STAINLESS cylinder looks good on the blue ROA.  Sort of like a SEVILLE / Les Flowers.
25 gr.fffG and r,b. is a great target load........
LYMANS  Blackpowder book ......the magazine size one, lists  4F  powder loads for the R.O.A.                                    WASATCH CHARLIE....
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