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 New Thompson Hawken

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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 9:26

@burlesontom wrote:
And just so you know your picture is of a Traditions rifle and not of the excellent TC built rifles.

And Henry Leman built better rifles than the Hawkins did. t up

They were pictures to show profiles, I have handled, sold or traded for more TC firearms than anyone combined on this list. When still in business we had two buyers hitting every estate sale, farm sales or ads in the local newspapers buying inexpensive muzzleloaders. I had deals with three large sporting goods stores in Northern Colorado that didn't like muzzleloaders (because of the additional inventory needed for them). They would take them in trade and then trade them to me for modern guns we had gotten in trade and didn't want to sell in our operation (win - win for all parties). In the 80's and 90's an average TC found at a sale could be bought for $50-$60 dollars in good condition. As soon as they hit the door one of our guys would tear them down, clean all the metal parts, soak the barrels, touch up bluing, pull dents out of the stocks then give then some Birchwood Casey stock finish. If they came in mid week they were on the sales rack for the weekend and sold by Sunday night. 

A $50 dollar gun would bring $150 after being cleaned up, had a friend remark we were "charging to much".  Once we explained commission fee, time involved in making the gun correct (sometimes need missing parts) then sitting on the rack until sold was all involved. If they still wanted to talk about costs compared to sales cost I would say "someone needs to pay to turn the lights on", that ended the conversation. 

I have handled a few original Hawken rifles, the best one was the Medina rifle (his daughter was buried on our property just a few miles from his trading post on the Big Thompson.

I agree H.E. Leman was a better built rifle (mainly because of having machinery that performed different function in the build). We have own several Lemans, in fact I have two originals hanging on the wall in my office. Know a little bit about them seeing how a family member owned a machine shop in Lancaster PA when Leman was still in business there (lots of old tales).   t up

The trouble with this stuff is when your younger it's all about money, when you get older you kick yourself in the butt for not saving some of these guns. Same with cars owned, have had some new cars, then sold them and now I watch theses auctions and see a car I paid $4,000 for in the day bring $75,000 or more.  headslap

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Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 62
Age : 46
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 10:49

Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.
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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 11:00

Hey Buck sounds like you had a good thing going. I used to do that on a much smaller scale. I would buy guns, everyone knew I was good for quick cash on a gun if the price were right. Then I would clean them and resell. If I could make 50-75 bucks on the gun I was happy.

And I really don't know if Lemans were better than Hawkens, I was just pullin'yer chain. Tease

I am reading the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle right now and Ned Roberts stated the Hawken rifles were the "Ne Plus Ultra" of those type of guns. I wish I could handle one of Hawkens and Leman rifles just to see for myself. I was supposed to make a trip to Dixie Gunworks last summer but it all fell through. I wanted to at least see these guns up close for myself.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 11:35

@Renegadehunter wrote:
Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.

You may want to look at Jonathan's products to cure your problem.

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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 203
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 11:47

What I like about the Renegade platform is the flat/wide butt-plate and the lack of cheek comb. Some people complain about the drop and felt recoil on their face but I don't experience that. In my case I put a GM barrel and L&R lock on a Renegade stock to make what I wanted.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 11:55

@burlesontom wrote:
Hey Buck sounds like you had a good thing going. I used to do that on a much smaller scale. I would buy guns, everyone knew I was good for quick cash on a gun if the price were right. Then I would clean them and resell. If I could make 50-75 bucks on the gun I was happy.

And I really don't know if Lemans were better than Hawkens, I was just pullin'yer chain. Tease

I am reading the Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle right now and Ned Roberts stated the Hawken rifles were the "Ne Plus Ultra" of those type of guns. I wish I could handle one of Hawkens and Leman rifles just to see for myself. I was supposed to make a trip to Dixie Gunworks last summer but it all fell through. I wanted to at least see these guns up close for myself.

You were doing the same as us and about the same profit margin.

GRRW had the original Jim Bridger's Hawken on loan for them as well as several other famous mountainmen Hawkens to make schematic drawings (now available at Track of the Wolf). When GRRW closed Doc White cut a deal with TOTW and traded the schematic drawings of original Hawkens and Leman rifles for parts.

Carl Walker and Les Bennett (GRRW gunsmiths) tolds me the Jim Bridger's Hawken had issues from the factory. They pulled the breech plug and found the rifling machine got off and left the first 6 inches from the breech clean (no rifling). They found a few other minor items, but didn't go into detail. Carl said even back then, time was money, fix the mistake and sell the gun (they felt guns today are better than their counterparts). The guys at GRRW felt what they saw of originals (Hawken and Leman), Lemans had less issues.

Fun stuff bud.   :rtup

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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 12:47

You have some great stories Buck. I wish Burleson Tx was a little closer to Lehi Utah. I would to sit and listen to some of your stories.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 14:14

The sad thing is I only tell you the good stuff, don't like to repeat the crap that went south and there were some pretty good ones over the years.   No   pale  That was the material things, the ladies - now that's a different story ...  affraid   :wow

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Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 62
Age : 46
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 16:15

@Buck Conner wrote:
@Renegadehunter wrote:
Perhaps it hasn't ever been shot and still has some sharp edges in the rifling?  I'm just wondering if it's tearing the patches due to the barrel needing broke in still.  Try loading a patched ball and then pull it again and see what the patch looks like.

You may want to look at Jonathan's products to cure your problem.

I'm not sure what you mean?
I was referring to Hylander's post about the range report not being good, and that some of the patches were blown apart.  In a previous post he said the rifle looks to be unfired.  I was suggesting that perhaps it truly was unfired and therefore needs the barrel broke in, as I've heard of some rifles having some sharp edges until they are fired a couple hundred times.  If its a "new" barrel it could be cutting the patches, thus causing his accuracy issues.  Wouldn't hurt to check before throwing a bunch of different patch thicknesses, lubes, etc. at it.
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Mofish



Number of posts : 81
Age : 74
Location : East of Dallas
Registration date : 2018-07-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 16:43

Please excuse my photos, I'm not too adept in the skills of picture taking. I just thought some of you might like to see what I consider more of the style of the original Hawkens. This full stock model has a 1" barrel and it's 35" long...so it is fairly heavy and I personally think it would be a project to carry it on a horse. 
I good friend, that is no longer with us, gave me a Sharon barrel and the full stock blank to build a rifle with. I gave it to another friend that is a great muzzleloader builder and he put this together for me. It is a .50 caliber with a 1x60 twist and shoots like a champ.
New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 V5dK5vWl
New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 9j9P9mnl
New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 ZAVWS0Al
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Mofish



Number of posts : 81
Age : 74
Location : East of Dallas
Registration date : 2018-07-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 16:45

A couple more pics:
New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 WJWMs5kl
New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 O1XWuskl
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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 17:03

@Buck Conner wrote:
The sad thing is I only tell you the good stuff, don't like to repeat the crap that went south and there were some pretty good ones over the years.   No   pale  That was the material things, the ladies - now that's a different story ...  affraid   :wow

Buck I was wondering when someone would use that squirrel thingy. I have been looking for just the right place to use it but you nailed it.  t up

Mofish your gun is stunning. And the weight of a sure 'nuff Hawken is what keeps me from pursuing getting one. I got to handle one old original half stock of some sort and I bet that sucker weighed 13 pounds if it weighed a pound.

I guess if you were deer hunting and forgot your balls you could just climb up a tree and wait for a deer to walk under you and just drop the rifle on him. That should do it. cheers
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Mofish



Number of posts : 81
Age : 74
Location : East of Dallas
Registration date : 2018-07-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 17:54

Being an old guy, it can be a little tough sometimes, but I still try to shoot a match once a month. I let this Hawken sit in a safe for about 5 yrs. before I even started shooting it, and opted for stuff like some of my .40's and .45's to use in the matches. But considering the fact that I don't know how many years I have left to compete and enjoy my rifles, I pulled it out about 6 months back and started shooting it in the matches. 
After all I decided I should enjoy it now instead of someone else getting to enjoy it after I am gone !
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 601
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Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 19:14

Very nice rifle Mofish

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 601
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Registration date : 2016-02-03

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 19:32

Read thru some of this thread and have been following it. Comments made on other forums about accuracy of the TC being a Hawken. Tom says who cares. My thoughts exactly. I dont care what was accurate and Im not thinking TC even cared when they built the gun. When someone says that to me there overlooking the fact that there was a great interest in those guns. TC made a bunch of them Renegades, Hawkens, Senacas, Penn, and other models. It sparked an interest into muzzleloading and I for one would have not ever gotten into muzzleloading when I did if it hadnt been for TC. I wonder how many other guys followed there lead into the sport. Im betting there isnt very many guys shooting muzzleloaders that havent had a TC in there house at one time or another. Just my .02 worth YMMV

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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burlesontom



Male Number of posts : 168
Age : 62
Location : Burleson, Texas
Registration date : 2018-04-10

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyWed 31 Oct - 19:53

BigAl your thoughts are spot on. I actually started with a Cabelas Hawken but a copy of the TC rifle. To my eyes it looked good. I looked like a mountain man rifle. It loaded like one and shot a big round ball and did a damn good job of it once I learned how to load it. I killed an Elk with that rifle. And I have owned several TC guns in the past. The one I regret selling the most was the 36 caliber Seneca I had. What a great little rifle that was. But I know where the guy lives that bought it. He said he has never fired it. I may have to offer him a nice profit and get my old gun back.

I would to have a more accurate traditional style rifle. A TVM Southern rifle looks really good to me. But I don't know if I want to spend the money for one. The rifles I own now are nice and will do everything the TVM will do.

By the way I have been meaning to ask, is that you with your Super Cub in your avitar? For a while the guy I took a few lessons from was flying the second oldest airworthy J-3 in the U.S. He is over 80 now and I suppose a little too shakey to be flying. But I would love to ride in a cub. I fly RC models and I have modeled more Cubs than any other plane. One was a quarter scale with a 9'3" wingspan. A big baby to fly.
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mlrifleNY

mlrifleNY

Male Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Location : Central NYS
Registration date : 2017-09-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 6:59

I started with a TC Hawken. Started going to shoots and it has been all fun for over 40 years. Sadly I have sold all the store bought rifles and have only custom longrifles that I built. Wish I still had some of the oud rifles back.

Jim

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50 cal. longrifle  flintlock
50 cal. longrifle  percussion
44 mag Henry BBB
1860 Henry in 45 colt
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 11:52

@BigAl52 wrote:

Comments made on other forums about accuracy of the TC being a Hawken. 
.

Back in the late 80's at the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association Championship Shoot at Leadville CO. we had some of the shooters crying about "its another Ron Long shoot" (because Ron was the top guy to beat). I'm President of the association, when the 6 guy came to me about this I got pissed.

I went to "Traders Row" talked to the dealers making a deal with them for (7) TC Hawkens in .50 caliber (most popular caliber), the State would buy these guns. If need be I'll cover the costs.

We setup a long table and placed the boxes on the table, called the six cry babies over and let them stare at the (7) boxes. Then told them they needed to pick a gun, last gun left is the one Ron Long will shoot. Gave each of them a practice target and a match target. This was on a Wed. afternoon, the Ron Long Shoot would be held at 11AM on Thur (next day). They had that afternoon and the next morning using whatever combination of round ball/patch and powder they wanted. 

The match (50 yards) went well with everyone shooting the same production TC in the same caliber, I told them "no filing on these guns as they would be used as shoot prizes at other events." 

Needless to say Ron shot a perfect score 50-XXXXX, the best next score was a 45-XX, the rest were way below that. No more crying at our events.  The Denver Post wrote "Mr. Ron Long of our city shot a perfect score."  

That didn't set well with some, so in the next CSMLA Journal I wrote. "No matter what the match, if Ron Long is involved (taking part) whether shooting, rock throwing or a spitting contest, he'll kick your butt."  "The reason I say this is he practices for whatever he enters, and that's the key to his success, period."

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mlrifleNY

mlrifleNY

Male Number of posts : 20
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Registration date : 2017-09-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 13:01

I always worked to beat the ones that won almost all the time. It took work but after a number of years practicing I started to out score many of them. I still go to a few shoots but I no longer worry about out shooting anyone. I don't practice but only at shoots and I am there just to have fun now days. I still win my fair share of matches. Seams some people want to complain rather than put in the work in 
 it takes.

Jim

_________________
54 cal. longrifle  flintlock
50 cal. longrifle  flintlock
50 cal. longrifle  percussion
44 mag Henry BBB
1860 Henry in 45 colt
45-70 Henry in Brass
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3406
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Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 13:12

@mlrifleNY wrote:
I always worked to beat the ones that won almost all the time. It took work but after a number of years practicing I started to out score many of them. I still go to a few shoots but I no longer worry about out shooting anyone. I don't practice but only at shoots and I am there just to have fun now days. I still win my fair share of matches. Seams some people want to complain rather than put in the work in it takes.

Jim

I'm like you at this age and agree about those that don't put in the time at the range. I go to the local range and see guys either shooting a Glock (held on it's side) and not hitting an archery target at 25 yards or those just standing around bad mouthing the guy shooting.  

The fastest way to make them move on is fire a few rounds of black powder then they are telling me "that gun stinks".   Tease

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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1774
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Registration date : 2015-10-28

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 14:44

@BigAl52 wrote:
... Im betting there isnt very many guys shooting muzzleloaders that havent had a TC in there house at one time or another...

Oh, noes! I feel like a nerd who hasn't ever seen Star Wars. 
I have not had a TC in my gun safe. ) : 

Should I seek donations? Laughing

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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mlrifleNY

mlrifleNY

Male Number of posts : 20
Age : 68
Location : Central NYS
Registration date : 2017-09-25

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 15:17

Should I seek donations? New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_lol
KC it's to late for donations and at 110 years old it just might be to late for most everything. bounce 

Jim

_________________
54 cal. longrifle  flintlock
50 cal. longrifle  flintlock
50 cal. longrifle  percussion
44 mag Henry BBB
1860 Henry in 45 colt
45-70 Henry in Brass
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 21:41

Hey Tom
That plane is a Piper PA-12. It belongs to my sister who lives in Covington, Washington. Its a suburb of Kent. It has a larger than stock motor in it and flat gets with the program on take off. I have ridden in that plane up to the San Juan Islands in Northern Washington. She is currently tryin to sell it and has been for about a year. I also use to fly RC but gave it up about 15 years ago. To many hobbies and not enough time.

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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Hylander

Hylander

Male Number of posts : 233
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Registration date : 2017-11-07

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyThu 1 Nov - 22:16

T/C Hawken 50 cal. was my first muzzle loader back in about 1994
Regardless of originality I have always liked the look and feel of them.
I have owned 3 now and two Lyman GP's, all in 50 cal.
I like the T/C's, just wish they cut the rifling deeper.
I may buy a T/C 45 cal. Hawken locally .
My plan would be to have the 45 rebored to 50 and the 50 rebored to 54.
I know to some it might seem a waste of time and money but it is what I like.

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Failure is not an option.
T/C Hawken 50 Cal.
T/C Hawken 54 Cal. Rebore
Pietta 1858 .44 with 45 Colt Conversion
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1774
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

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PostSubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyFri 2 Nov - 5:53

New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptySubject: Re: New Thompson Hawken   New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 EmptyYesterday at 23:44New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_multiquote_off_en New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_post_quote_en New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_post_edit_en New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Topic_delete2 New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_ip1


"Wait a minute KC I thought I seen you shooting a TC at one of youre shoots a while back while you was showin off that fancy range box." - Big Al

(Hides head)
I am shamed to admit that I mis identified a rifle. I embarrassed my ancestors by thinking a CVA was a TC. (I actually misremembered the brand of an old rifle I had and convinced myself it was a TC. It was a rifle I had had for years and saw no need to look closely again. I 'knew' what I had)

I have received some grief about that. Now, Al's steel trap memory has called me out here, too! Whoa is me! I will never escape the stigma! New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_sad 

As to my age? That is incorrect. I actually had a birthday. That should read older. I am spry for my age, eh? New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_wink If mentally questionable...

TC Donations will continue to be accepted. New Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_lolNew Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_lolNew Thompson Hawken - Page 2 Icon_lol

PS. I also accidentally obliterated Al's original post where he called me out! Sorry, Al.

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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