Frontier Muzzleloading
Welcome to Frontier Muzzleloading!

Please take the time to either Register or Log In to your user name and join us!


Muzzleloading Forum
 
HomeFAQRegisterLog in
Share
 

 what are the signs of useing too much powder?

Go down 
AuthorMessage
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 07:56

what are things too look for when using too much powder? I usd too get good groupings with my 54 now its all over the place . the one thing I did switch are different patches .18 thick my other ones are 15 wit a 530 rb . before I was shooting 80 gr. of 3 f . is that too much? the 18 patches load real hard and im thinking of going back to 15 . I read an article in muzzleblast last month of a guy shot an elk at 110 yards using 60 gr of 3f .im starting to think im over loading the gun
Back to top Go down
Grimord



Male Number of posts : 47
Age : 64
Location : Salem, CT
Registration date : 2015-01-02

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 08:41

I use 85 grains of 3f in my 54 flintlock, a .015 mink oil lubed patch, and a .532 cast pure lead ball for a hunting load.  Gives me 3" groups at 75 yards from the bench, which is as far as I will shoot at a deer with open sights.  My target load is 70grns 3f.  It shoots better groups at 25 and 50 yards, but the 85 grain load has a flatter trajectory which I prefer for hunting.  I hold right behind the shoulder for all shots.
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 09:31

I would start by using this method first to see if you have an overloaded problem with your charge.

An easy way to see if all of the charge was used is use a bed sheet or if available a clean blanket of snow. Shoot over either surface then look at where you shot over (looking for black unburned powder - will look like someone throw pepper on the surface). If there's no sign of the black powder spray - your good.  If there are signs of powder reduce your load by 5 grain and shoot over another clean spot, repeat until you don't see the powder - then you have reached what your gun likes (or close to it).

Next after you have done what was mentioned it's time to start working with fine tuning your load.  It seems there are some on this site that use a wad along with their charge and claim very good results. While others play with patch thickness, type of patch material and type of patch lube.

Your going to be working with your gun for thickness of patch, diameter of the ball, type of ball - home casted with a sprue or swaged balls without a sprue. The sprue can drive you nuts (you'll find some are shorter or longer changing your ball weight and your actuaries). 
__________________________
When still seriously shooting matches we spent more time doing one of two things.

  • I have always either tumbled the cast balls then weighted them to be as close the same weight as possible. Time consuming but worth the effort. 
  • Don't be fooled by purchasing swaged balls (they can vary in weight and should be checked for their average weight).
  • Odd weight balls put to the side and can be played with later to either recast or trade them.

__________________________

For hunting you don't have to make it a science project like mentioned, just be aware of cast balls with sprues (one higher than the rest can change your target picture).  

Good luck, I sure some of the other guys will make suggestion too on what they do. Listen to everyone then decide what works for you.

ear bug :tup2

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
BigAl52
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 609
Age : 67
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 12:34

I guess I would wonder why you switched if it was working before. If it aint broke dont fix it. That load you are using will do the job for a hunting load. What gun are you shooting this in?

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
Back to top Go down
Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 222
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 14:37

I use 80 grains FFFg in 3 different .54's, one a flintlock. I have another that groups best with 100 grains. I don't think there is a need for 100 grains based on my hunting experience with 80 grain loads. But, that rifle just has to have 100 to group best. I think 100 grains is typically safe but I personally would not load more. What does the manufacturer say is the max load?  The fact that it loads harder with the thicker patch does not necessarily mean the load is too much. Figure out what groups best and 80 grains should be good. Try a different or supplemental lube on those new patches.  Also, if they are pre-cut, see if any is overlapping the ball upon short starting and cut off that amount at the muzzle.
Back to top Go down
falcon

falcon

Male Number of posts : 1563
Age : 80
Location : Southwest, Oklahoma
Registration date : 2012-05-28

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 21:30

i find a load the rifle shoots accurately and leave it alone. The two sidelock rifles i use most shoot really well using 80-90 grains of powder.
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16344
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-25, 21:33

How do the recovered patches look?
Back to top Go down
Mofish



Number of posts : 88
Age : 74
Location : East of Dallas
Registration date : 2018-07-25

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 03:23

I've found that 75/80 grains seem to work well for me in a lot of my hunting rifles. I've shot deer with 70 gr. behind a round ball out of a .62, and it puts it nicely through the ribs on both sides. I doubt a lot more powder would do better. Go for the accuracy so you can put it where it needs to go and don't worry a lot about heavier loads.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 09:33

@FrontierGander wrote:
How do the recovered patches look?
the 15 is tattered. the 18 is reuseable
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 09:34

@Buck Conner wrote:
unburned powder in the snow - reduce your charge.
yep looked like i had a pepper shaker with me
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 09:53

We are talking about loads for these rifles, this is great to compare notes.  I personally shoot 3FFF in everything from .32 caliber to .62 caliber ignition type doesn't matter, use the same 3FFF for my priming powder also.  I'm use the same or similar charge like most of the replies for amounts (nothing special). Have only recently used a wad, but for 50 years never gave that idea a thought.

The reason I'm replying to this posting is with running these 'Frontier Muzzleloading Postal Matches'; what load are you guys shooting?  With attending Shooting Matches (local, state and National) for over 50 years you see guys shooting their hunting loads (hot) and then once in a while I have experienced a few using their target (reduced load) for hunting.  

You should see how mad a 2000 lb. buffalo bull gets when hit several times with a 45-50 grain charge, then the shooter does not know what to do. Then I'm asked by either the shooter or their spouse to end the problem (kill the animal). I would rather shoot the fool that created the problem.....

My point is the guys shooting the postal matches may want to consider a reduced charge for shooting paper (don't do anything to your sights - use 'Kentucky Windage').  Save powder and wear and tear on you and your equipment.

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
dbowling



Male Number of posts : 305
Age : 58
Location : Rockville, In.
Registration date : 2014-01-22

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 13:02

check your nipple to see if its worn out.
Back to top Go down
Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 105
Age : 46
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-11-26, 14:35

Do you have any of the .015 patches left to try?  See if the groups are still good with them or if they have opened up too.  If the groups are good just go with them.  If not, then try a new nipple like mentioned above and I'd also check to see if the wedge pin is getting worn and doesn't fit as tightly as it should.
80 grns of 3f is comparable to 95 grains of 2f, so it is a pretty stout load but should be well within the max load range of a .54 cal.
Seems odd that the tighter fitting patches that look reusable after being shot would make accuracy worse, but I've read about that happening to other folks too.  My first step would definitely be to try the old patches to see if accuracy comes back or if there is another problem going on.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 05:11

this is the first day that hasn't been snowing , I am going to shoot some more today with 15 patches and see what happens
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 11:06

Ok I need a refresher course... if I'm hitting high and left I move the sights the other way?
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16344
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 11:27

move the rear sight in the direction the bullet needs to impact.

If its hitting to the right, move the rear sight to the left.
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 11:30

Correct Jonathan. This for some reason seems to be an issue seen over and over again.  Dunno  Quess it depends on how your looking at it ....   scratch

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16344
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 11:36

Hey if you really want to confuse someone, try explaining how they should adjust the front sight so it hits where you need it lol!
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 11:52

scratch    study    ear bug    Dunno

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-01, 12:15

I'm tired... I got it ok ... at 50 yards. Let me see if I can put up pictures
Back to top Go down
dbowling



Male Number of posts : 305
Age : 58
Location : Rockville, In.
Registration date : 2014-01-22

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-05, 12:19

nothing showing up for me but the box with a x in it.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 04:42

there has to be an easier way to post pictures
Back to top Go down
The author of this message was banned from the forum - See the message
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 09:25

@steady eddie wrote:
there has to be an easier way to post pictures

Go to: "https://postimages.org/" website and follow their simple directions by signing up, its free. Nothing hard about it .....

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 09:26

@strong eagle wrote:
send them by email to frontier gander and he will put them on his site.

Want your ass reamed, make these kind of suggestions, he's too busy as it is.  Rolling Eyes

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16344
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 09:59

lol! yes! I can only do so much right now guys, especially posting pictures. We have an easy to use photo server directly on our site. See in the little box where we type? Look for the youtube image/button, then move your mouse button over 3 spaces and you will see a screen with a little tiny floppy disk symbol. If you let your mouse hover over it, it will say Insert image. You can only upload 3 pictures at a time, but its simple and loads directly off of your computer.
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16344
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 10:07

heres a sticky on how to post pictures using our forum server. Step by step.
https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t11242-using-the-forums-picture-host
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 13:46

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Kimg0410
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 13:49

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Kimg0311
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 14:14

As stated at the first part of this subject:

An easy way to see if all of the charge was used is use a bed sheet or if available a clean blanket of snow. Shoot over either surface then look at where you shot over (looking for black unburned powder - will look like someone throw pepper on the surface). If there's no sign of the black powder spray - your good.  If there are signs of powder reduce your load by 5 grain and shoot over another clean spot, repeat until you don't see the powder - then you have reached what your gun likes (or close to it).


Your showing us pictures of the targets not what was left in front of the muzzle on the ground or on a bed sheet or white surface. 

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 14:25

I know but this was the kinda spread I was getting . love hate thing
Back to top Go down
Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 222
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 14:28

I think that is more likely due to improper ball/patch sizing and less to do with powder charge.
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 14:41

@steady eddie wrote:
@FrontierGander wrote:
How do the recovered patches look?
the 15 is tattered. the 18 is reuseable

Have you pre washed your patch material, usually .018 material will drop several sizes like down to .0160 or .0165 or close to. Your probably using pillow ticking or canvas (most common fabrics in that size). Like you mentioned if burning the .015 your probably going in the right direction with pre washed .018 material. You would have a good ball, patch to barrel sizing that may cure your problem. Good luck.

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 15:15

those last 4 I dropped the charge to 75 3f and a 15 patch.... on another note I can post pictures now... question . I have a t/c new Englander what size flints should I order? I forgot
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-06, 15:25

TOTW

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Flint-eng-5_0English gun flint , 5/8 x 3/4", small Siler, L&R Bailes, CVA, all Thompson Center flintlocks, Lyman Great Plains & Trade Rifles, Pedersoli LePage pistol
Small, about 5/8 x 3/4", for most medium size flint locks. Used in our small Siler, L&R's Bailes, Thompson Center, Lyman, Cochran, CVA, Hamm, Dixie, Traditions, Maslin, Shoultz, Palmetto's Ashmore, Barnett, and Lancaster locks. The finest natural flint occurs as dense grey-black nodules, within chalk deposits. Tom Fuller, a young man with a deep in
     what are the signs of useing too much powder? Inv_1   FLINT-ENG-5 . . . $2.00


what are the signs of useing too much powder? Flint-eng-6s_0English gun flint , 3/4 x 3/4" square, older large Siler, T/C, InvestArm, Lyman
About 3/4 x 3/4” square, to fit older large Siler flint locks which will not allow the frizzen to close on a 3/4” flint. We stock this odd size flint, due to so many requests from our loyal customers. The finest natural flint occurs as dense grey-black nodules, within chalk deposits. Tom Fuller, a young man with a deep interest in the tradition and
     what are the signs of useing too much powder? Inv_1   FLINT-ENG-6S . . . $2.00

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-07, 02:52

thank you
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-16, 11:10

@FrontierGander wrote:
Hey if you really want to confuse someone, try explaining how they should adjust the front sight so it hits where you need it lol!
just for educational purposes .lets hear it
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3488
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-16, 13:04

Lots of ideas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+should+I+adjust+the+front+sight&oq=how+should+I+adjust+the+front+sight&aqs=chrome..69i57.10848j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

_________________
.
what are the signs of useing too much powder? Camp

.
Back to top Go down
steady eddie



Number of posts : 76
Age : 44
Location : vermont
Registration date : 2017-09-09

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-16, 13:22

that's why I come here .
Back to top Go down
Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 105
Age : 46
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-17, 09:36

I've always remembered "follow your bullet/arrow" when moving a front sight.
When sighting in you move the sight the same way the projectile is hitting.  If hitting below the bulls-eye move sight down, if hitting to the right of the bulls-eye move sight right, ect.
Back to top Go down
Hanshi

Hanshi

Male Number of posts : 351
Age : 73
Location : Maine
Registration date : 2015-01-21

what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty
PostSubject: Re: what are the signs of useing too much powder?   what are the signs of useing too much powder? Empty2018-12-23, 13:13

Sign of too much powder?  pirat  Your gun in the same arrangement it was in prior to it being assembledbounce affraid
Back to top Go down
http://www.martialartsusa.com
 
what are the signs of useing too much powder?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Frontier Muzzleloading :: Muzzleloading Topic :: Traditional Muzzleloading-
Jump to: