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 FFG or FFFG?

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"REAL" blackpowder, which do you use FFG or FFFG?
 FFG
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

Male Number of posts : 306
Age : 44
Location : Colorado Mountains
Registration date : 2013-10-01

PostSubject: FFG or FFFG?   January 16th 2019, 11:16 am

Curious if there's a general consensus or not when using "real" blackpowder.  Do most use FFG or FFFG?

I'm sure this subject has been beat to death but... let's do it one more time!  I did do a search but didn't find exactly the information I'm looking for.

My gun is a .54 cal percussion sidelock and I'll be shooting PRB.  I'm going to be trying real blackpowder for the first time.  What would be the advantages or disadvantages to shooting one over the other as far as 2F or 3F?  I've always used 2F but that was with BH209 & T7.  Maybe either one is fine and it's just personal preference and what the specific gun seems to like?

I need to buy some locally so checked both Bass pro & Sportsmans warehouse.  Neither show they sell real black powder on there web site?  Kind of surprised.  Maybe they do have some just don't list it on there site?  I'm sure I can find it somewhere else if not.

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yellowlab



Male Number of posts : 25
Age : 59
Location : oregon
Registration date : 2016-12-21

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 16th 2019, 11:41 am

I used to use 2f in my pedersoli frontier .54 flint,4f in the pan. Now I use 3f for the main charge and in the pan. Dropped the main charge down about 5 grns. Shoots just as well as far as I can tell. Someone who shoots better might be able to tell the difference.
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

Male Number of posts : 306
Age : 44
Location : Colorado Mountains
Registration date : 2013-10-01

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 16th 2019, 1:18 pm

@yellowlab wrote:
I used to use 2f in my pedersoli frontier .54 flint,4f in the pan. Now I use 3f for the main charge and in the pan. Dropped the main charge down about 5 grns. Shoots just as well as far as I can tell. Someone who shoots better might be able to tell the difference.

I can definitely see an advantage in using one type of powder for both the pan and main charge when using a flintlock.  Although I have zero experience with a flintlock!  Thanks for the comment...

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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 16th 2019, 4:03 pm

I use both. Depends on the tool and the purpose.

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over the good fortune of others." 
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

Male Number of posts : 306
Age : 44
Location : Colorado Mountains
Registration date : 2013-10-01

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 17th 2019, 6:50 am

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
I use both. Depends on the tool and the purpose.

I can see where that makes sense. Would you make that determination solely based on accuracy results or is there more to it that I’m not thinking of?

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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 166
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 17th 2019, 9:48 am

I have several calibers, rate of twist and rifled and smoothbore. Every one of the rifles has a FFFg load that is most accurate.  The smoothbores don't care, similar velocity with ball or shot. So for simplicity, I just use the FFFg in all of them and quit experimenting. If FFg had produced the most accurate combo in any of them I would have stuck to it at least in that particular rifle. I use what gives the best accuracy.
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Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 40
Age : 45
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 17th 2019, 10:25 am

I think it comes down to the rifle.  I started off using 2f in my .54 Renegade and fairly easily found a load for both RB and conical that shot pretty decent.
Now I've been trying to find a good 3f load and am struggling.  I've tried 60, 65, 70, & 75 grains so far and none shoot the groups that my 75 grain RB charge of 2f does.  I'm beginning to think that my rifle simply prefers 2f.  I'll be disappointed if that's the case, as the fouling with the 3f is MUCH better than what I'm used to with 2f.
I'm still experimenting.  I'm wondering if the greater fouling of the 2f is leaving a bit tighter patch/ball fit than I'm now getting with the 3f.  Going to try a little tighter patch with the 3f and see what happens.  I swab every shot, but have noticed that the cleaning patch goes down the bore quite a bit easier when using the 3f vs. the 2f, so I think I definitely have a different bore condition between the two. 
So I guess I can't really answer the poll just yet.  I find the 3f highly preferable to 2f where fouling is concerned, but will choose whatever yields the best groups.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 17th 2019, 2:33 pm

I shoot Swiss Powder exclusively in all of my Guns, and prefer 2F over all, it just seems to be the best overall performer in my array of Rifles. No doubt it comes down to a “per gun” deal, i have shot 70 Grains of Swiss 3F all the way out to 500 Yards very accurately. Both Grades are Excellent
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16042
Age : 34
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 17th 2019, 8:30 pm

Give both a try IMO. I shoot a lot of 2fg. For some reason though, when I used patched round ball for hunting, I use 3fg.
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1757
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 18th 2019, 8:36 am

@CoHiCntry wrote:
@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
I use both. Depends on the tool and the purpose.

I can see where that makes sense. Would you make that determination solely based on accuracy results or is there more to it that I’m not thinking of?

CoHiCntry, I wish there was more science to it than feel. I have been playing with 2f vs 3F in the last few months and recently started playing with Hodgdon 777 3F, too. Some of it is because of manufacturer recommendation. Some of it is because when I travel to hunt with by best friends, we sometimes share powder. (Airlines frown on traveling with the BP) It can be just a convenience thing. 

But, and this may be my imagination, it seems to me that I have a couple rifles that are happier with 2F than 3F and vice-versa. 
If it seems damp, I will use the finer grain. Mentally, it seems it might fire better with the damp being smaller ground? But, I really do not know. It could just soak up damp quicker? If some one knows, shout!

I do know that my over all accuracy seems to have ticked up since giving into the feeling. I am using more 2F now for Holy Black and the 777. But, I have no science, just feel and memory. I am having fun, though.

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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Kicked Back



Male Number of posts : 17
Age : 72
Location : Avondale, Arizona
Registration date : 2018-11-17

PostSubject: 2 or 3 ?   January 18th 2019, 1:30 pm

I use 3f in my pistols and my 32cal Crockett then 2f in my 45 and 50cal rifle. I have never experimented!! I will give it a go, something to do again. Very Happy
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Clyde



Number of posts : 390
Age : 65
Location : Delaware
Registration date : 2011-11-27

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   January 18th 2019, 5:24 pm

I USE FFG OLDE ENYSFORD WHICH IS CLOSE TO SWISS.  I'VE HEARD SOME PEOPLE CONSIDER IT TO BE 2.5 FF BECAUSE THE GRAIN SIZE IS BETWEEN FFG AND FFFG.  I HAVE FOUND IT TO BE CLEANER THAN TRIPLE 7 AND BLACK MZ AND THE FOULING IS ALSO SOFTER.
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edmehlig

edmehlig

Number of posts : 14
Age : 68
Location : Easton, PA
Registration date : 2010-05-13

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   March 17th 2019, 12:20 am

I purchase my black powder at Dixons ML store at Hamburg PA.  They swear Swiss is the best powder on the market today with Olde Enysford next in line.   I use to shoot 777 but now shoot Swiss exclusively.  Currently, I shoot Swiss 3F but will be trying 2F shortly.

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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3225
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

PostSubject: Re: FFG or FFFG?   March 17th 2019, 10:18 am

Have shot Goex for at least 40 years all done with using the 3FFF product no matter what the caliber and used for priming the flint guns too. Have always had success with this product whether used for Championship Shooting or hunting anything from small game to animals as big as buffalo and moose.  

I may purchase Olde Enysford to try a pound, know several farmers that have used Swiss for breaking boulders and large rocks but don't know anyone in Northern Colorado or around here in Utah that have even used it.

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