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 PRB effectiveness on big game?

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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 13th 2019, 8:11 am

I'll take a round ball all day long over 90% of those powerbelts.
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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 13th 2019, 8:31 am

@FrontierGander wrote:
I'll take a round ball all day long over 90% of those powerbelts.
Spoken like a true traditionalist.  Powerbelts* fall into my "everything else " category  Laughing


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* p.s. You might remember FG that SD table was copies from an older post of mine.  I only used it for the bullet weights, not the specific projectile.


Last edited by Marty on February 13th 2019, 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added p.s.)
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Hanshi

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 13th 2019, 1:10 pm

I've never had penetration issues on deer using prb; even frontal shots dropped them DRT.  More often than not the prb went in one side and out the other; many of them just flattened out under the off side skin.  And unless one is concerned that the target species is going to attack, I see no need at all to shoot at the shoulder; too easy to just wound.

My muzzleloading hunting began in the 1960s with an H&A underhammer.  A flintlock Minuteman .45 soon joined the UH.  The UH took deer, bobcats and squirrel, paying its dues nicely.
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Marty
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Marty

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 13th 2019, 5:47 pm

... wrote:
Black bear at 45-yards had a small entry hole and a similar sized exit hole though lungs. It spun around, straightened out and made one stride before front-rolling to a stop. 248 pounds ...
Sounds like a complete pass-through the lungs on that bear.  That's what I like to hear.

Anyone else besides sparkitoff take a black bear with a PRB Question
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 13th 2019, 7:09 pm

@FrontierGander wrote:
I'll take a round ball all day long over 90% of those powerbelts.

I have heard several folks say this same thing, I personally have no experience with Power Belts, i have never fired one. One of my Good friends here Shot a Whitetail Doe this year (last year now) With his CVA Wolf using a Powerbelt of some kind? Broadside shot at 60-80 Yards, That bullet did not Exit? It Blew apart and was found in pieces. That would have been enough of them for me!
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 15th 2019, 12:37 pm

@Marty wrote:
... wrote:
Black bear at 45-yards had a small entry hole and a similar sized exit hole though lungs. It spun around, straightened out and made one stride before front-rolling to a stop. 248 pounds ...
Sounds like a complete pass-through the lungs on that bear.  That's what I like to hear.

Anyone else besides sparkitoff take a black bear with a PRB Question

Using patched round ball taking animals with black powder:
   (??) White Tail deer.
   (??) Mule deer.
   (8-10) Elk.
   (04) Black Bear.
   (12) Buffalo. (for myself and others that couldn't keep them on the ground)
   (01) Rocky Mountain Sheep. (One-In-A-Life Time permit)
   (??) Small game.

We lived on wild game, raised cows they were sold not eaten, didn't know you could ate a cow when little on the farm.

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Last edited by Buck Conner on February 16th 2019, 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 15th 2019, 1:59 pm

I got so wrapped-up in ballistics I missed   Embarassed your earlier mention in this post on your bear harvests 'Connor.  You have quite the PRB list there Buck'  :Grace
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 15th 2019, 2:51 pm

Very impressive Buck!!
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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 7:16 am

Buck', the sheep you posted with the .62 smoothbore is yours ??
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 7:20 am

@Marty wrote:
Buck', the sheep you posted with the .62 smoothbore is yours ??

I’m not sure if that’s Buck or not but that’s no sheep!  Lol!  It’s a mountain goat.

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 7:44 am

@CoHiCntry wrote:
@Marty wrote:
Buck', the sheep you posted with the .62 smoothbore is yours ??

I’m not sure if that’s Buck or not but that’s no sheep!  Lol!  It’s a mountain goat.
Yup.  Put my reading glasses on Exclamation Laughing
Your CO regulations are so confusing.  Is the "once in a lifetime permit" a special permit?
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 7:59 am

@Marty wrote:
@CoHiCntry wrote:
@Marty wrote:
Buck', the sheep you posted with the .62 smoothbore is yours ??

I’m not sure if that’s Buck or not but that’s no sheep!  Lol!  It’s a mountain goat.
Yup.  Put my reading glasses on Exclamation  Laughing
Your CO regulations are so confusing.  Is the "once in a lifetime permit" a special permit?

Colorado only has one “once in a lifetime” hunt and that’s for bull moose. Sheep & Goats can be drawn more than once but there is a five year waiting period if you draw until you can apply again. Chances of a non- resident drawing more than once in their life is slim to none. The tags are $2K and it now costs $100 point fee just to apply every year. And the kicker is you aren’t even in the draw until you apply for three years.

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 8:04 am

Does one permit cover Sheep and Goats...or do you need to apply for each separately  Question
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 8:08 am

@Marty wrote:
Does one permit cover Sheep and Goats...or do you need to apply for each separately  Question

No, they are separate tags. You have to apply for each separately. At $100 non-refundable for each species application. You can opt out of the fee but then you don’t gain a point which makes applying useless because you have to have three points to even be in the draw.

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 8:23 am

Wow CoHiCntry...besides the waiting for a draw it's also expensive $,$$$ Shocked

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p.s. Awesome goat in your Avatar lol!
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CoHiCntry
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CoHiCntry

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 8:32 am

@Marty wrote:
Wow CoHiCntry...besides the waiting for a draw it's also expensive $,$$$ Shocked

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p.s. Awesome goat in your Avatar lol!

Lol!... Yes it’s very expensive to apply & hunt in any western state for the big three (moose, sheep, goat).  Each state has a little different system but are all equally expensive. The only way to do it any cheaper is to be a resident of a western state that offers hunts for these species. One could argue your better off in the long run to save your money and go up north on a guided hunt.

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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 8:49 am

@CoHiCntry wrote:
@Marty wrote:
Does one permit cover Sheep and Goats...or do you need to apply for each separately  Question

No, they are separate tags. You have to apply for each separately. At $100 non-refundable for each species application. You can opt out of the fee but then you don’t gain a point which makes applying useless because you have to have three points to even be in the draw.

That's correct, the picture of the goat is not mind, a good friend got that one with his trade gun.  Oh the picture on CoHiCntry page is a Rocky Mountain Sheep folks.  That's a good sheep by the way....  :tup2

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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 9:19 am

Buck', I had a hutch you had some first hand knowledge of that goat photo.  Old photos like that are real eye-catchers for me because there's usually an awesome story behind it.
In the day not everyone took pictures of their trophies.  It's simply an exceptionally well-taken photo showing the hunter, his unique clothing, and his cannon Shooter .
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 9:28 am

@Marty wrote:
I got so wrapped-up in ballistics I missed   Embarassed your earlier mention in this post on your bear harvests 'Connor.  You have quite the PRB list there Buck'  :Grace

Animals harvested with PRB in my case is due to the length of time hunting with this style of weapon. When I came home from my experience in Cambodia (referred to as "a vacation in a sunny land" by the recruiter). My first job was with the State of Pennsylvania - the DOW as an animal control agent.  My area was the rich and famous estates of the Remington's, DuPont's, Rockfellow's and a few other big money families all on the "Main Line" (outside Philadelphia). All these estates have beautiful landscape and flowers that would knock your socks off (it was a competition between these estates to out do the other guy). 

My job was to shoot any and all deer or flower eating animals, year around, was furnished a .264 Win Mag (talk about over kill) that would rattle the windows on these estates (with complaints).  After a few months my father said why not use a muzzleloader in a small caliber, that would take care of the problem. I told my boss my father's idea which made sense to him - I within a week was given a Hopkins & Allen under-hammer in .45 cal. I got good at my distances with one shot kills from 10 yards to 50 yards. I tried to place all shot behind the ear if at all possible. 

I kept the State backhoe operator busy digging trenches on the backside of properties - 6 foot deep, width of the bucket and 20 foot long for harvested game. A new trench was needed about every 8-10 weeks. After 18 months the job was making me sick seeing those brown eyes and how I ended a living things life, had to leave.

The best part of the job they had written off the black powder items I had been using and the rifle, and accessories were given to me on my last day.  I have been asked how many deer went down in this program, answer - I really have no idea as numbers were not kept.

My experiences of shooting animals with PRB would be no different than you guys if given the same opportunity.

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 9:37 am

@Marty wrote:
Buck', I had a hutch you had some first hand knowledge of that goat photo.  Old photos like that are real eye-catchers for me because there's usually an awesome story behind it.
In the day not everyone took pictures of their trophies.  It's simply an exceptionally well-taken photo showing the hunter, his unique clothing, and his cannon Shooter .

The gentleman in the picture is Larry Fennell from FT Collins, CO. He was a fish biologist for the DOW, he knew when and where to hunt with his permit. We always hunted in clothing like shown in the picture, then the DOW made us put on 500 sq. inches of orange (we used faded colors until they changed the wording to "Hunter Orange"). We hunted in the back country and most Game Wardens don't get far from their trucks, so we were good.

When I got my Rocky Mountain Sheep and Larry got his Rocky Mountain Goat - the permits were "once-in-a-lifetime" only then.  Then 15 - 20 years later the population on these critters had grown that the rules changed for the number of permits one could get, just like what will happen with the moose in time.  

My experiences with moose is keep a safe distance and have trees near by, they are nasty. Larry and several others and myself were fishing on the Cache La Poudre River (French for "Cache of Powder River" - like in black powder). The river is just north of FT Collins, a mamma moose with twins put all of us up in trees until she decided to leave with the kids. You should try climbing with fringe on your shirt and pants .....

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CoHiCntry
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 10:29 am

Got any pics of your sheep Buck?  Would love to see it.

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 16th 2019, 2:14 pm

@CoHiCntry wrote:
Got any pics of your sheep Buck?  Would love to see it.

PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 1955-30

This is really a good sheep, very nice curl.

I am all packed ready to move, but did find one plus a few record holders (not mine) pictures.  

I look at these two guys and have always felt the 207 5/8 was larger than the 207 7/8 animal. Has to be in diameter of the horns that he measured larger plus a little more curl.

PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 Comparsions

They all look like brothers no matter what the scoring.

Once I get moved here in a few months I have some good photos like yours I'll share.  I knew the taxidermist that does most of Cabela's mounts at the time (worked with his sister), he did my mount which is OK - nothing special, got no deal there.

Did you feel bad after the hunt was over (game taken).  That's why I stopped hunting, the actual hunt was more enjoyable than pulling the trigger of late.



PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 Granddaughter

This is our favorite Big Horn (me and the grand daughters), a hard hunt at Walmart's.  
Cork guns are tricky to shoot in close quarters .....   Rolling Eyes

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Last edited by Buck Conner on February 18th 2019, 9:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Hanshi

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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 17th 2019, 1:43 pm

Yes, Buck, I do.  I think it's a natural feeling for hunters who actually love the animals they hunt.  I don't know if I will be hunting much anymore, myself.  But I do, for the sake of my mind and spirit, have the need to get into the woods, hunting or not.
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 17th 2019, 9:54 pm

PRB was effective on big game for hundreds of years before conicals were invented.
They still are.
Louis and Clark (and the troops with them) carried .54's. They killed grizzly bears, bison, moose, elk, etc. with them.
With the proper load, and presuming your shot placement is good, the .54 using a patched round ball is capable of taking any critter in North America.
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PostSubject: Re: PRB effectiveness on big game?   PRB effectiveness on big game? - Page 3 EmptyFebruary 18th 2019, 9:02 am

@afishhunter wrote:
PRB was effective on big game for hundreds of years before conicals were invented.
They still are.
Louis and Clark (and the troops with them) carried .54's. They killed grizzly bears, bison, moose, elk, etc. with them.
With the proper load, and presuming your shot placement is good, the .54 using a patched round ball  is capable of taking any critter in North America.

The Corp of Discovery guns (L&C) (documented in Jefferson's paperwork) were closer to .52 caliber according to an article in the National Riflemen a few years ago.  Smithsonian Museum had one of the guns on display (on loan from another museum) it measured a tight .532 diameter. In Lewis' account of some of the animals taken he mentions using thin doe skin for patching.   study

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