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 Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)

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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 12:47 pm

I bought a Can of this to try, no reason other than I wanted to see if I could tell any difference in it and the Regular Swiss? This Caviar gave me Slight Hangfires all 3 Shots!! This Rifle (none of my rifles do this) I had to Quit and Go home. Accuracy was Good, But that Slight Delay In Ignition plays to many head games with me, Not sure if I’d ever Grow a Love for a Flintlock? 

I only lubed the bottom band of these Maxi Balls, as i say in the Video, Maxi’s are Lube HOGS, and for no good reason. I have bullets for long Range 45 Cal (1.5” long) That require way less than a Maxi ball, The Bottom Lube Groove is all that is Needed, The Rest is just a Waste of Bullet lube, Mine, and My Rifles opinion anyway. 

A look at Regular Swiss, and Swiss Caviar, Both 2FG. Caviar Obviously gets it’s name from it’s Round fish egg shape, It is designed to Flow smoother through Powder Measures (BPCR) Ignition in my Sidelock this morning was NOT GOOD! I won’t be using anymore of it.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 12:56 pm

Even with the Slight Hang/delay fires it was Accurate, i had a Bad feeling after the 1st Shot, I Had to work with myself on Holding/following through my Shots in case it kept doing it, Sure Enough it did! It’s not worth messing with anymore, This can of powder will find a new Home, Or be Torched off in my Driveway like the Pyrodex P Very Happy
  I’m sure this stuff is fine in Cartridge guns with hotter Ignition (it’s intention) I didn’t think ignition would be any different between this Caviar and Regular? But I can assure you it is!


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inline50

inline50

Number of posts : 538
Age : 48
Location : MA
Registration date : 2012-02-07

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 1:28 pm

Delayed Ignitions always drive me crazy Rolling Eyes at the range.  I was never able to duplicate and pinpoint the likely cause like you did.
Nothing wrong though with being forced to follow through with your aim.  Flinters have that down to a science.

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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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Age : 34
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 3:55 pm

Hmmmm that is interesting about that powder hang firing like that. May be a little more on the synthetic side but sets off easily with BP Cartridge set up. Email Swiss about this. Good solid shooting with the hang firing. Follow through is important with these old guns.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10219
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 4:32 pm

I never heard of that powder. Graf's doesn't have it.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 4:59 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
I never heard of that powder. Graf's doesn't have it.

Pete,  i don’t think it’s very popular? I have always wanted to try a Can of it for no Good reason other than wanting to. After this morning, i wish i had bought a Regular Can of Swiss 2F, Notice the Darker Black, and No shine to the Caviar? Where the Regular Swiss is Glistening (Graphite?) 

 The Sound of the Video is deceiving, you can’t pick up the Slight Hangfires by listening. Shot 1 and 2 Were VERY slight, But definitely there, Shot 3 Was pretty bad from Shooter standpoint, I knew it was time to Quit with it. I wouldn’t have thought there to be any Difference In ignition? I might try it in my inlines? It bothers me though, Regular Swiss is Immediate ignition, Just like one of my CF Rifles
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 5:11 pm

One thing I like about lubing the entire bullet is that top band engages the rifling the most and I hate the idea of popping them into the bore dry and having lead build up at the muzzle end. They are lube hogs, around 7 grains of lube for the 370gr maxi ball.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 5:23 pm

I don't think Swiss uses graphite. They polish it more to get the shine.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 8:52 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
I don't think Swiss uses graphite. They polish it more to get the shine.

That may well be the case?
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edmehlig

edmehlig

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 9:01 pm

Lew, as usual excellent shooting even with the Hang Fires!  Very Happy
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 9:04 pm

@edmehlig wrote:
Lew, as usual excellent shooting even with the Hang Fires!  Very Happy

There you are! My good Friend Ed!! Glad to see you here!!
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edmehlig

edmehlig

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 9:10 pm

Will be seeing me more here!  Wink

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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 16th 2019, 9:25 pm

@edmehlig wrote:
Will be seeing me more here!  Wink

:tup2  Glad to have you here my Friend!! You and i are early Birds, Now i will have someone to Visit with at 3-4am my time  Very Happy

   This Old GM LRH .50 Gets with it Huh? I need to Drag its Big Brother Out of the Safe, Dawn a Combat Helmet, and Prepare for Torture lol! The Ole .54 LRH is MEAN!! Lighter weight, Bigger Bullets, Not a very pleasurable Rifle to Squeeeeeeeze the Trigger on, Knowing what awaits! Makes ya bounce for Joy when it’s over! Razz
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 17th 2019, 12:00 am

@OldMtnMan wrote:
I don't think Swiss uses graphite. They polish it more to get the shine.

I did some digging Pete, i thought the Regular Swiss looked an awful lot like Shiny Graphite, The photo Above doesn’t do it any Justice. The Caviar on the other Hand doesn’t look anything like Regular Swiss, it is Dull Black

https://schuetzenpowder.com/swiss-black-powder/
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DaveG



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Location : South Carolina
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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 18th 2019, 5:22 pm

I'm using Swiss Caviar 2F in my Uberti Hawken with Remington caps and have not experienced a hang fire.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 18th 2019, 5:44 pm

@DaveG wrote:
I'm using Swiss Caviar 2F in my Uberti Hawken with Remington caps and have not experienced a hang fire.

Do you by chance know the Size of the Nipple Flash Hole on your Gun? The nipples i use are Treso/Ampco, they have a tiny .028 Flash Hole when new, The nipple in this Rifle has been Shot a Lot, But Stil measures a Very small .030-.031, A TC Hotshot nipple is Closer to .035 When New, This Swiss Caviar would likely “Set off” Better with a Nipple like the TC Hotshot. But I have NEVER had this Delayed/Hangfire Problem with Regular Swiss, I have Shot Regular Swiss 2 and 3F Powder Exclusively in all of my Guns From my Beginning In Muzzleloading.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 18th 2019, 6:06 pm

I don't mess with #11 caps anymore. I'll be using musket caps in my GPR like I always have. Way more reliable and 100% ignition all the time. As a side benefit, you don't need a capper. Very Happy
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 18th 2019, 10:49 pm

@Idaholewis wrote:
@DaveG wrote:
I'm using Swiss Caviar 2F in my Uberti Hawken with Remington caps and have not experienced a hang fire.

Do you by chance know the Size of the Nipple Flash Hole on your Gun? The nipples i use are Treso/Ampco, they have a tiny .028 Flash Hole when new, The nipple in this Rifle has been Shot a Lot, But Stil measures a Very small .030-.031, A TC Hotshot nipple is Closer to .035 When New, This Swiss Caviar would likely “Set off” Better with a Nipple like the TC Hotshot. But I have NEVER had this Delayed/Hangfire Problem with Regular Swiss, I have Shot Regular Swiss 2 and 3F Powder Exclusively in all of my Guns From my Beginning In Muzzleloading.

That explains the hang fires. My guess that the swiss is more on the sub black powder size or maybe just due to the round ball design, its harder to set off. I always recommend the knight redhot due to how smooth it flows. Factory nipples give me hell with the subs, but that red hot solves it all.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 281
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 19th 2019, 7:27 am

@FrontierGander wrote:
@Idaholewis wrote:
@DaveG wrote:
I'm using Swiss Caviar 2F in my Uberti Hawken with Remington caps and have not experienced a hang fire.

Do you by chance know the Size of the Nipple Flash Hole on your Gun? The nipples i use are Treso/Ampco, they have a tiny .028 Flash Hole when new, The nipple in this Rifle has been Shot a Lot, But Stil measures a Very small .030-.031, A TC Hotshot nipple is Closer to .035 When New, This Swiss Caviar would likely “Set off” Better with a Nipple like the TC Hotshot. But I have NEVER had this Delayed/Hangfire Problem with Regular Swiss, I have Shot Regular Swiss 2 and 3F Powder Exclusively in all of my Guns From my Beginning In Muzzleloading.

That explains the hang fires. My guess that the swiss is more on the sub black powder size or maybe just due to the round ball design, its harder to set off. I always recommend the knight redhot due to how smooth it flows. Factory nipples give me hell with the subs, but that red hot solves it all.

I also believe it had something to do with the Ball type shape of the powder, Vs more of Broken shape Flake. I am gonna test this Swiss Caviar again soon, But in my White Super 91 .451 Cal, I just checked the Flash Hole diameter in my New #11 BP plug (Thank you edmehlig!!!) it measures right around .035, Right with a TC Hotshot. And being inline ignition, i Bet the problem goes away

I sure had a NIGHTMARE of a Time getting Pyrodex P to Reliably ignite, I Stil believe i got a Bad Can of Powder? Either that, or my Flash Hole needed to be More open than .033ish, I had a Few outings that were Comical, yet PEE’D me off to! lol! My First Shot (Cold Clean Bore) was more of a Fizzle, hardly any Recoil? My bullet didn’t even make it to the Target! What would Cause that?? This is what makes me think i got an Old, Bad Can of Powder? I had this Happen a Couple of outings, and was always my First Shot. I made up mind that i would NEVER trust it on a Hunt!! I sprinkled the Can on the Ground and Lit it off to Get rid of it, I went back to my Swiss Blackpowder and never looked back at Pyrodex. I did try T7, i got really good Accuracy, But needed a mini Bulldozer to Break the Crud Ring Down, it was HORRIBLE for that!
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falcon

falcon

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PostSubject: Re: Swiss Caviar 2F (Not impressed!)    March 19th 2019, 6:51 pm

i don't understand this new Swiss caviar powder. Except for the uniform size granules Swiss caviar powder looks like black blasting powder. A person on another site says caviar is hygroscopic and sometimes clumps in humid weather.

The G in FFG, FFFG etc stands for glazed. The powder gets glazed from tumbling. Black blasting powder is not glazed. Black blasting powder is made with sodium nitrate.

When i had my explosive permit and underground storage magazine an old rock blaster stored his black blasting powder there: He used the stuff to blast marble, granite, layered rock etc. i worked with him several times.

Black blasting powder is designated FFA, FFFA, etc.
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