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 The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle

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wingerdt



Male Number of posts : 1
Age : 55
Location : Fairbanks
Registration date : 2019-02-22

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PostSubject: The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle   The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle EmptyApril 30th 2019, 10:15 am

Hi from Alaska

I am on the verge of getting a Pedersoli version to screw around with at the range and maybe taking moose hunting   Anyone on here have any experience making or procuring  the 451 Hex rifled bullets for this thing?   Am I over thinking the complication the paper patch process?    It appears that it's not very common rifle and not many places mold bullets.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3389
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle   The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle EmptyApril 30th 2019, 12:34 pm

@wingerdt wrote:
Hi from Alaska

I am on the verge of getting a Pedersoli version to screw around with at the range and maybe taking moose hunting   Anyone on here have any experience making or procuring  the 451 Hex rifled bullets for this thing?   Am I over thinking the complication the paper patch process?    It appears that it's not very common rifle and not many places mold bullets.

I'll forward your concerns to Doc White. He'll be able to tell us all about this.

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docwhite



Number of posts : 2
Age : 83
Location : Roosevelt, UT
Registration date : 2019-04-26

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PostSubject: Re: The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle   The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle EmptyApril 30th 2019, 9:56 pm

This is Doc White. Whitworth was a genius, an Englishman, who revolutionozed shooting in his day. He was tasked in 1853 with improving the 58 caliber percussion British military rifle, which shot a 530 grain hollow based bullet designed by Ptitchett, much like the familiar Minie-Ball. What he came up with the is the unique 451 caliber hexagonal bored , 1-20 twist percussion rifle described in the question above. The rifle was never adopted by the military but it became the basis for all the long bullet muzzleloading shooting of the next 20 years and of the long bullet breech loading guns of thefollowing 30 years. His work was the basis of my work in the 1990's that resulted in the White Muzzleloading System. He revolutionized long distance shooting. I capitalized on his genius, as had all the other bullet and barrel designers in the years in between. His rifles were extremely accurate, capable of shooting 800 yard  groups half the size of the 58 Prtchett bulleted rifle musket of 1853 on. Later workers did even better using rifling that looked very modern, solving the problems of the hexagonal bore which dirtied easily and had to be cleaned between shots to maintain accuracy, not what yu want in a militry rifle. By 1880, it took a foot sized groip to win a match and took a group half that at 1000 yards to win by 1900 when smokeless took over. YOU CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF THE HEXAGONAL BORE JUST LIKE THE OLD TIMERS DID, USE A BORE SIZED SLIP-FIT BULLET , JUST LARGE ENOUGH TO SLIDE DOWN THE LANDS - the soft lead bullett will expand ith the blow of firing  nto the rifling and spin with it for enominal accuracy. I have see many less than 2 inch groups with black powder and 460 to 520 grain bullets at 200 yards. The best I ever did with a Sporting-Target rifle with tall peep sight, a douglas 451 barrel with 1-18 twist and 520 gr bullets was a 4 inch  5 shot group at 700 yards, cleaned between shots. NOWADUYS WITH bLACKHORN 209, YOU DON'T NEED TO CLEAN THE BARREL. to maintain accuracy. Such bullets have very high sectional density and Ballistic Coefficient, so maintain energy way out there, the same 451 rifle quoted above  used 80 gr Pyrodex P for 1250 ft sec and btter than 1000 ft lbs of energy left at 200 yards, plenty for any big deer or elk. So buy a .450  plus bullet, size it to fit you bore and get great performnce  DOC
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docwhite



Number of posts : 2
Age : 83
Location : Roosevelt, UT
Registration date : 2019-04-26

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PostSubject: Re: The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle   The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle EmptyApril 30th 2019, 10:04 pm

more - the molds for the bullets are available from several sources, Lyman makes a good one. Yes the bullet has a round profile. you do have to size it to get best results, an RCBS sized and .450 die cost less than $100. You want the bullet to fit easy enough that you can push it into the bore wit a thumb, usually about 1/2 to 1 thou smaller than the land to land diameter, that should be about .450 . WHEN YOU SHOOT THE BULLET, IT EXPANDS INTO THE HEX BORE AND BECOMES HEX, USE PURE LEAD, WITH NO MORE THAN 2% tin for best results.. DOC
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3389
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle   The 1853 3 band enfield Whitworth rifle EmptyMay 1st 2019, 9:16 am

I told you guys Doc would have a correct answer and not blow smoke on the subject. Thanks Doc I'll contact you tonight, been busy with this move and dealing with walking pneumonia for the last couple months. !@#$%^

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