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 Buying vs. Molding?

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oneshot 1

oneshot 1

Number of posts : 567
Age : 65
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 22nd 2019, 10:00 am

I've chosen to Buy but is there any advantage to Mold?

I have Molds it is a matter of just getting cheap Lead.

oneshot
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 361
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 22nd 2019, 12:06 pm

I started Casting my own bullets Because i like being in control of Quality Control, After Buying a Few boxes of Bullets i soon found out that Quality Control was HORRIBLE, Bullet Weights ALL OVER THE BOARD, Voids from Cold molds, etc. etc. By Casting your own Bullets you are the Judge of Quality Control, If the Bullets Don’t come out perfect, Throw em back in the Pot, Melt em Down and Re Pour until they are Perfect :rtup When you are forced to Buy Bullets, You are STUCK with what you get. I recently tested some “No Excuses” Bullets for Hardness, What i found was DISTURBING to say the Least (Another Tester Found the Same Thing i did) It made me feel Warm n Fuzzy inside that i Cast my Own Bullets Very Happy After What i seen, I would NOT Advise “No Excuses” Bullets to ANYONE

  I plan to do a Muzzleloader Bullet Casting Video soon, Just waiting on a Really Nice Day where i can Set up Outside in good Lighting.
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oneshot 1

oneshot 1

Number of posts : 567
Age : 65
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 22nd 2019, 2:57 pm

Idaholewis what got me away from molding is I bought several pounds of what was to be Soft Lead, first couldn't scratch it with Fingernail then couldn't get it to melt down. I wasn't happy.

Now I have many bought Bullets  that will do me years and work fine but I'm always trying to fix something not broken LOL.

oneshot
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Marty
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Marty

Male Number of posts : 3696
Age : 63
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 22nd 2019, 4:51 pm

@Idaholewis wrote:
I started Casting my own bullets Because i like being in control of Quality Control, After Buying a Few boxes of Bullets i soon found out that Quality Control was HORRIBLE, Bullet Weights ALL OVER THE BOARD, Voids from Cold molds, etc. etc. By Casting your own Bullets you are the Judge of Quality Control, If the Bullets Don’t come out perfect, Throw em back in the Pot, Melt em Down and Re Pour until they are Perfect :rtup When you are forced to Buy Bullets, You are STUCK with what you get. I recently tested some “No Excuses” Bullets for Hardness, What i found was DISTURBING to say the Least (Another Tester Found the Same Thing i did) It made me feel Warm n Fuzzy inside that i Cast my Own Bullets Very Happy After What i seen, I would NOT Advise “No Excuses” Bullets to ANYONE

  I plan to do a Muzzleloader Bullet Casting Video soon, Just waiting on a Really Nice Day where i can Set up Outside in good Lighting
Just like centerfire reloads, casting does seem the ultimate way to go if you are looking for precision.  I would think having a lead source of known BHN critical in achieving consistency in casting.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 361
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 6:15 am

@oneshot 1 wrote:
Idaholewis what got me away from molding is I bought several pounds of what was to be Soft Lead, first couldn't scratch it with Fingernail then couldn't get it to melt down. I wasn't happy.

Now I have many bought Bullets  that will do me years and work fine but I'm always trying to fix something not broken LOL.

oneshot

I only buy Stamp Certified Lead, and Alloy, i Get it over at Buffalo Arms that way. But truth is, Casting is Expensive to do! I use a Lee 20 Pound Pot, It costs me right at 50 Dollars to fill it. Even Though it’s expensive, i enjoy tinkering with it, i have made Casting a Hobby just about as dear to me as my Guns, and Shooting them. I own a TON of Molds for .45 Cal, I have a good Bunch for .50, and .54 Cal, i even cast for .36 and .40 Cal. My Pet Caliber is no doubt .45 Cal, i have about as much money in my .45 Cal Bullet molds as i do my Rifles, I have 3 Molds sitting here beside me that were near 200 a piece and LOTS of Lyman at 80 a Piece. A lot of my Molds are Custom designs that i Came up with.

  Is the above needed? NO, Absolutely NOT! All a Guy needs is 1 or 2 Good Molds, if you Deer Hunt Only you could easily get away with 1 Mold. I shoot a little bit of everything From Target, to Hunting, that is why i have so many Different Bullet molds, And Like i said, i enjoy it and have made it a Hobby, and like any other Hobby I have gotten in to, I Spend money Very Happy 

 I have Casted long enough, and Shoot Enough Target Stuff that i understand the importance of a Quality Bullet (Sharp Bullet Bases) After all the Casting i have done, and inspecting Store Bought bullets, I would NEVER be happy with Store Bought Bullets, I know for a FACT that i can make FAR Superior Bullets than i can Buy.

 I seriously thought about selling Bullets at 1 time, But with the Cost of the Lead, And Shipping at 8 bucks a Box, There is little, to No Money to be made in it. The ONLY way i see that a person could actually make any Profit in Casting is if he could get the Lead/Alloy Free, or EXTREMELY Cheap. I believe The larger majority of everyday Guy’s in this Sport would buy Cheap Store Bought Bullets Before Paying Top Dollar for a Quality Box of Bullets
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 195
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 8:11 am

I buy roundball. I prefer the swaged balls. They weight consistency is outstanding and there is no sprew to think about. They say they are "pure lead" but I've never had one flatten out, even on big elk. Deer and hogs haven't stopped a .54 caliber ball yet. As far as conicals I have two rifles that are very picky. Out of many, many commercially available conicals one stubborn  .50 only shoots accurately and consistently with the Hornady PA Conical. There is no mold that duplicates that projectile as far as I know and for $7.99 a box of 100 on sale it is hardly worth trying to replicate them. Another rifle does okay with one particular commercially produced conical that is more modern. If these rifles are so picky, what are the odds I could pick a mold and create an accurate projectile on the first try? In these two cases it is not worth buying a mold and experimenting because the odds are against getting an accurate projectile. As far as the bashing of the No Excuse above I have several comments. First, they are most accurate in my 1:24" twist .54 caliber. Second, at 535 grains they are more than twice the weight of a roundball. Who cares if they are harder or softer at that weight?  I have never recovered a No Excuse .54 caliber (one deer, 2 cow elk and 2 bull elk, nilgai, bison, 2 black bear, gemsbok, eland, blesbok and zebra). The accuracy is most important and the mass to get adequate penetration is equally important. The No Excuse in the heavier weights, if accurate in your rifle, will penetrate plenty. So to bash the product based on inconsistent hardness is ridiculous. Manufacturing flaws that create inaccuracy....maybe. One store bought lead ball is not necessarily the same exact hardness as another...nor conicals from the same manufacturer... or shot from shotshells….or your cast stuff compared to mine....or this knife blade compared to that knife blade.  At 50 cents each I am not shooting No Excuse at the range for fun. I sight-in and hunt with them. Check the sight in prior to each hunt with from 1-3 shots. A box of 50 last me about 2 years ($26). When I can buy balls and conicals that produce 1" or less groups at 50-yards and under 3" groups at 100-yards for the worst of them what will I gain from casting? It is a great hobby and pastime. There is a major satisfaction to making your own projectile and having it be accurate or taking game with it. 
I hunt a lot with a slingshot - squirrels, rabbits, collared doves. The balls get shot a lot and lost easily. I cast these without regard for perfection, it is the cost-savings and fast availability in that case. I sometimes use steel 3/8 balls. They will go through a rabbit or bird but not a squirrel. The lead balls rarely go through anything. However, they both are heavy enough and fast enough to kill instantly - the steel ball being lighter but faster than the lead ball of same size. Same applies if I fired them from a rifle or smoothbore. Back to your original question," is there an advantage to mold"? Yes - if you need an unpopular size, fast availibility or know exactly what your rifle will shoot best and make it much cheaper than you can buy it for.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 361
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 9:33 am

@Sparkitoff wrote:
I buy roundball. I prefer the swaged balls. They weight consistency is outstanding and there is no sprew to think about. They say they are "pure lead" but I've never had one flatten out, even on big elk. Deer and hogs haven't stopped a .54 caliber ball yet. As far as conicals I have two rifles that are very picky. Out of many, many commercially available conicals one stubborn  .50 only shoots accurately and consistently with the Hornady PA Conical. There is no mold that duplicates that projectile as far as I know and for $7.99 a box of 100 on sale it is hardly worth trying to replicate them. Another rifle does okay with one particular commercially produced conical that is more modern. If these rifles are so picky, what are the odds I could pick a mold and create an accurate projectile on the first try? In these two cases it is not worth buying a mold and experimenting because the odds are against getting an accurate projectile. As far as the bashing of the No Excuse above I have several comments. First, they are most accurate in my 1:24" twist .54 caliber. Second, at 535 grains they are more than twice the weight of a roundball. Who cares if they are harder or softer at that weight?  I have never recovered a No Excuse .54 caliber (one deer, 2 cow elk and 2 bull elk, nilgai, bison, 2 black bear, gemsbok, eland, blesbok and zebra). The accuracy is most important and the mass to get adequate penetration is equally important. The No Excuse in the heavier weights, if accurate in your rifle, will penetrate plenty. So to bash the product based on inconsistent hardness is ridiculous. Manufacturing flaws that create inaccuracy....maybe. One store bought lead ball is not necessarily the same exact hardness as another...nor conicals from the same manufacturer... or shot from shotshells….or your cast stuff compared to mine....or this knife blade compared to that knife blade.  At 50 cents each I am not shooting No Excuse at the range for fun. I sight-in and hunt with them. Check the sight in prior to each hunt with from 1-3 shots. A box of 50 last me about 2 years ($26). When I can buy balls and conicals that produce 1" or less groups at 50-yards and under 3" groups at 100-yards for the worst of them what will I gain from casting? It is a great hobby and pastime. There is a major satisfaction to making your own projectile and having it be accurate or taking game with it. 
I hunt a lot with a slingshot - squirrels, rabbits, collared doves. The balls get shot a lot and lost easily. I cast these without regard for perfection, it is the cost-savings and fast availability in that case. I sometimes use steel 3/8 balls. They will go through a rabbit or bird but not a squirrel. The lead balls rarely go through anything. However, they both are heavy enough and fast enough to kill instantly - the steel ball being lighter but faster than the lead ball of same size. Same applies if I fired them from a rifle or smoothbore. Back to your original question," is there an advantage to mold"? Yes - if you need an unpopular size, fast availibility or know exactly what your rifle will shoot best and make it much cheaper than you can buy it for.

You don’t see a problem in a Box of Bullets that is of Mixed Hardness? From pure lead, to Wheel weight hard all in the Same Box, You Don’t see that as being an issue?

 I can tell you right now that it makes a HUGE difference in Accuracy, The Harder Bullets will usually Group together (depending on the rifle) and the Softer will Group together, But they Will MOST DEFINITELY Group Differently (Different POI) Some Rifles are a Little more tolerant/forgiving than others, But it will DEFINITELY show!

 As for Bashing “No Excuses” Bullets? All i am Doing is telling the ABSOLUTE truth about what i found, There is an entire Thread Dedicated to this on MM, Where Dave of NE gets involved. I have NOTHING in the World against the Man, i have never even Spoke to him, No Vendettas of ANY sort. I tested his Bullets for 2 Concerned members (1 was getting AWFUL Accuracy, Same Box of Bullets that FAILED Ron L’s Test) Dave of NE Made it Right with Him, Kudos to Dave for Standing behind his Product. There was 2 Different Boxes of Bullets tested, By 2 Seperate people, Both Boxes contained Wheel weight Hard, amongst Soft. There is simply No Excuses for that in my Opinion, Hopefully Dave of NE Got this Fixed, and there isn’t a Bunch of these Floating around.

  And then again, if they Shoot good for YOU, That is ALL that Matters, Remember you, and YOUR happiness is No.1 :rtup
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Sparkitoff



Number of posts : 195
Age : 72
Location : NC
Registration date : 2018-06-08

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 9:48 am

I understand and appreciate your report and findings. No offense to you. My point is that the hardness for some of the weights is somewhat irrelevant in terms of performance. I have used No Excuse many times but only the 535 grain .54 caliber bullets. I've not had "fliers" from the same box that can be attributed to the bullets themselves. I have not had different point of impact or velocity (with the same load) from box to box.  The owner is apparently aware of this and has since committed to taking measure to prevent mixed hardness. Whether he did or not I cannot say but he acknowledges some of this and makes the commitment in public on the running dialog you pointed out. If someone is going to sight-in and hunt a box or few of whatever commercially available conical it may be easier than going at casting for just a few bullets that will be not be used regularly at the range but rather for sight-in and hunts. I have no connection to No Excuse bullets and there are other good ones out there. Whether to cast your own or not is still a matter of proficiency, utilization, availability, cost and quantity. Ford had a recall on airbags for most models from 2011-2017. They know it and figured out how to prevent it in the future. I'm not going to quick buying a Ford because they once had a problem (that only manifested in 1% of vehicles) in the past.
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 361
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 12:38 pm

I really like the looks of “No Excuses” Bullets, they are a very good looking design, I have 3 Custom Bullets/Molds that are Very Similar Looking

My .45 Cal, 389 Grains with my preferred 1-40 Alloy
Buying vs. Molding? BAco1EWl
Buying vs. Molding? Pm7IlE1l
Buying vs. Molding? JFP1CYCl

This is a 2 Cavity, 2 Different Caliber/Design Mold. .50, and .54 Cal
Buying vs. Molding? MZAsei1l
Buying vs. Molding? 4kfmUdcl

Buying vs. Molding? DYBn1jAl
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Idaholewis

Idaholewis

Number of posts : 361
Age : 46
Location : North Idaho
Registration date : 2019-01-11

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyMay 23rd 2019, 12:59 pm

I actually prefer an “Inset” Lube Groove design over “Exterior Bands” They both Shoot AWESOME though, No complaints about either, Just a personal preference thing. 


“Inset” Lube Groove Right, “Exterior” Band Left
Buying vs. Molding? XkZSa9fm


The “Exterior” Band Bullet above, on the Left shoots pretty Good for me  :rtup 
Buying vs. Molding? ZzXrpIJl



This little 395 Grain “inset” Lube Groove doesn’t do Bad either
Buying vs. Molding? Omtst1Ll



Buying vs. Molding? OW8xZ3Al
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oneshot 1

oneshot 1

Number of posts : 567
Age : 65
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyJune 12th 2019, 7:18 am

I bought a 220Gr. Maxi mold for my .45Cal. and some good Lead. Got a Pot and Ladle, just need to find handles and all in my shop.

I know I’m cheap but I know it works.

I would like to buy a couple more Molds one for my .50Cal. and my.54Cal. On my.54Cal. I have Round Ball Mold and killed plenty Deer would it be worth buying a Mold for heavier Bullet?

oneshot
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10258
Age : 76
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Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyJune 12th 2019, 9:49 am

I only shoot round balls. I've found that the cast balls that October sells are very accurate as to size and weight. He uses pure lead. They're cheaper and more consistent than the factory swaged balls.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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oneshot 1

oneshot 1

Number of posts : 567
Age : 65
Location : Missouri
Registration date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyJune 12th 2019, 12:12 pm

@OldMtnMan wrote:
I only shoot round balls. I've found that the cast balls that October sells are very accurate as to size and weight. He uses pure lead. They're cheaper and more consistent than the factory swaged balls.

I have bunch of Round Balls and I like the Rifle. Thing is now I have 3 Rifles and always having to decide.

I get rid of my Pyrodex I should get some Real Powder.

oneshot
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10258
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

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PostSubject: Re: Buying vs. Molding?   Buying vs. Molding? EmptyJune 12th 2019, 12:18 pm

Yes, just having one gun makes decisions easier.

A PRB has never let me down but I do like to sneak in close and only take a double lung shot. It does mean passing up some shots but then I get to hunt longer.  Very Happy

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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