Frontier Muzzleloading
Welcome to Frontier Muzzleloading!

Please take the time to either Register or Log In to your user name and join us!


Muzzleloading Forum
 
HomeFAQRegisterLog in
Share
 

 GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen

Go down 
AuthorMessage
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 15th 2019, 6:40 pm

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Leman-2
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Leman1
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0167
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0166
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0168
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0170
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0171
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0192
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0191
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0190
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0193
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0189
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0174
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0175
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0176
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0179
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0172
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0199
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0200
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0201
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0177
Coned muzzle,
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0180
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0182
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0187
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0186
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0188
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0196
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0194
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0183
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0207
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0208
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen 100-0211
Back to top Go down
Marty
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Marty

Male Number of posts : 3725
Age : 63
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 16th 2019, 8:18 am

Truly unique.  Nice brass work.  I never saw etching on the muzzle like that either.
Back to top Go down
plmeek



Number of posts : 7
Age : 65
Location : Denver area
Registration date : 2016-03-11

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 16th 2019, 11:29 am

Nice Leman rifle.  The engraving is close to what one sees on original Leman rifles.

What's the story on this rifle?

I know a Robert Allen.  He has put together a few rifles, mostly from kits, but he doesn't do any engraving.

Interesting that the builder used a Hawken lock and Hawken breech plug.  The Lancaster Long Rifle by Patrick Hornberger & John Kolar, pages 110-111, has pictured a custom Leman rifle with a Hawken style breech.  Not common but not unheard of, either.
Back to top Go down
Hanshi

Hanshi

Male Number of posts : 329
Age : 72
Location : Maine
Registration date : 2015-01-21

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 16th 2019, 2:15 pm

Oh, man, what a nice rifle!  t up
Back to top Go down
http://www.martialartsusa.com
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 16th 2019, 3:05 pm

@Marty wrote:
Truly unique.  Nice brass work.  I never saw etching on the muzzle like that either.

Engraving has been around since the first firesticks came on board. Paul Revere was a famous engraver even Ethan Allen had tried his hand at the art. Over the years my family has had some pretty fancy engravered flinters as well as precussion guns, it was all about how deep are your pockets.

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
Bull



Number of posts : 4
Age : 52
Location : Texas
Registration date : 2016-05-02

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 16th 2019, 9:26 pm

Nice touch on the muzzle.
Back to top Go down
Shumbatsvuku



Number of posts : 1
Age : 74
Location : Collector and shooter
Registration date : 2017-10-12

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 5:15 am

Wow, what a beauty. I didn't realize GRRW made fancy rifles like that.
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 8:36 am

@Shumbatsvuku wrote:
Wow, what a beauty. I didn't realize GRRW made fancy rifles like that.

GRRW made what ever you wanted within their product line, fancy wood, patch boxes were just a few things available in the day. Greg Roberts would try to get the customer what he was inquiring about as long as the basic design wasn't changed.

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
Winter Hawk



Male Number of posts : 13
Age : 75
Location : S.E. Ohio
Registration date : 2015-12-26

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 9:16 am

Another lovely piece.  I take it that you are collecting (cornering the market?) Green River guns?

~WH~
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 10:37 am

Major collectors of GRRW items will and have sold like guns with higher serial numbers, keeping the lower numbered guns for their collections (just like we all do from time to time with what ever you collect). 

Clean nicer guns have always been collected like many other antique items, but in time if one looses the desire - there goes the collections.  Have done this several times and am experiencing this trend at this time. Collections no matter what they are, are work for upkeep as well as values going up and down today with this generation not interested in what we like (value goes down with no interest to the youth - sad).

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 11:13 am

@Winter Hawk wrote:
Another lovely piece.  I take it that you are collecting (cornering the market?) Green River guns?

~WH~

I wish! But no, these are not my guns. A buddy is collecting them. His newest is a CA edition early model full stock hawken he bought off Doc White. I have not photographed that one yet.
Back to top Go down
Marty
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Marty

Male Number of posts : 3725
Age : 63
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 11:36 am

@Buck Conner wrote:
@Shumbatsvuku wrote:
Wow, what a beauty. I didn't realize GRRW made fancy rifles like that.

GRRW made what ever you wanted within their product line, fancy wood, patch boxes were just a few things available in the day. Greg Roberts would try to get the customer what he was inquiring about as long as the basic design wasn't changed.
It doesn't appear to me that the muzzle is coned and why not scratch
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 12:33 pm

You would have to ask the guy that built the gun ....

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
Hanshi

Hanshi

Male Number of posts : 329
Age : 72
Location : Maine
Registration date : 2015-01-21

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 12:43 pm

I've never been a collector; all mine are rather "run of the mill" working guns.  They like to hunt, shoot targets and plink.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martialartsusa.com
FrontierGander
Site
Site
FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 1:25 pm

@Marty wrote:
@Buck Conner wrote:
@Shumbatsvuku wrote:
Wow, what a beauty. I didn't realize GRRW made fancy rifles like that.

GRRW made what ever you wanted within their product line, fancy wood, patch boxes were just a few things available in the day. Greg Roberts would try to get the customer what he was inquiring about as long as the basic design wasn't changed.
It doesn't appear to me that the muzzle is coned and why not scratch

This one certainly has a coned muzzle, it's just not as aggressive as some others I've shown in the past.


Last edited by FrontierGander on June 17th 2019, 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Marty
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Marty

Male Number of posts : 3725
Age : 63
Location : Massachusetts
Registration date : 2009-02-03

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 17th 2019, 3:43 pm

Thanks FG.  I was comparing it to other I've seen that are more clearly defined.
Back to top Go down
texsam1949

texsam1949

Number of posts : 7
Age : 69
Location : East Texas Piney woods
Registration date : 2016-06-11

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 18th 2019, 10:27 am

Very nice ! I got the half stock .54 cal (more like a .53 cal ) in semi finish form way back in 1977 from GRRW.

_________________
"Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil."
Back to top Go down
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 18th 2019, 11:08 am

Your kit (GRRW) is a true .54 caliber, the jug choking (GRRW was famous for this idea) is what will sometimes make it feel tight when loading. I've had - purchased, traded for or sold many of these rifles over the years when still in business, some felt tighter than others but never had any complaints about it.

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
jt1200r



Number of posts : 1
Age : 65
Location : MD
Registration date : 2018-12-01

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 18th 2019, 3:36 pm

Thats a nice looking smoke pole.
Back to top Go down
RonC
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 19th 2019, 1:57 pm

That's a rifle I would love to have. GRRW really did make top-of-the-line rifles!
Ron

_________________
RonC

Outside of a Dog, a Book is Man’s Best Friend. Inside of a Dog, It’s Too Dark to Read. Groucho Marx (or possibly someone earlier)
Back to top Go down
Hanshi

Hanshi

Male Number of posts : 329
Age : 72
Location : Maine
Registration date : 2015-01-21

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 19th 2019, 2:33 pm

They are indeed very fine rifles.  I wouldn't mind having one myself.  Got to say, though, they've never interested me nearly as much as longrifles.  I guess one could say that longrifles are my passion.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martialartsusa.com
Hanshi

Hanshi

Male Number of posts : 329
Age : 72
Location : Maine
Registration date : 2015-01-21

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 19th 2019, 2:37 pm

Long, long ago I saw a Dean Martin western (comedy) in which they carried what looked to be percusson Lemans.  Can't find that movie anywhere now.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martialartsusa.com
Buck Conner
Site Moderator
Site Moderator
Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3395
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 19th 2019, 5:40 pm

@Hanshi wrote:
Long, long ago I saw a Dean Martin western (comedy) in which they carried what looked to be percusson Lemans.  Can't find that movie anywhere now.

The movies companies bought 100's if not 1000's of original flintlocks, percussion and Civil War, etc guns. Many in very good condition.

When working as a background actor at "Centennial" (the guys without speaking parts), good job, good food and the pay wasn't bad either. At night we would hang out with the company prop guys, they would let us look over the props being used for that movie (man what a gold mine of wares, you name it and if looked hard enough you would find what was asked about). I tried to buy an 1833 Hall Breech Loader, they pulled the inventory card (playing with me). The gun was purchased from an armory in 1935 for $3 bucks, I offered $500 but they couldn't sell anything, belonged to the movie company's inventor. 

At (same job) "The Mountain Men" they had more original guns, Leman's and Tryon's were the largest in numbers.

At  (same job) "Fur Trade On The Platte" they had a combination of plains rifles by different makers (some I could never find any information on). Still neat originals in average condition.

With a dozen movies under my belt I was always looking at the inventory, bigger companies had the funds for the best inventories.

.

_________________
.
.
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Img2

.
Back to top Go down
plmeek



Number of posts : 7
Age : 65
Location : Denver area
Registration date : 2016-03-11

GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen Empty
PostSubject: Re: GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen   GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen EmptyJune 20th 2019, 9:49 am

I finally reached out to the original owner of the subject rifle and got the skinny on it.

It's not a factory GRRW rifle, though it is made with some GRRW parts.

Robert J. Allen, aka Bob Allen who publishes the Green River Gazette, acquired some parts from his friend Lloyd Helms when Lloyd was working in Boise, Idaho with Oregon Trail Riflesmiths.  These parts included a GRRW barrel, GRRW Leman trigger guard, butt plate, and cap box.

Bob told me that four different people had a role in making the rifle.  Bob had Lloyd start building the rifle, but life got in the way, and Lloyd didn't get it finished.  Bob had a couple different gun makers in Wichita, KS work on it and finish it up.  He sent the rifle to Jack Brooks and had him do the engraving on it.

The rifle has some GRRW heritage with a GRRW barrel and GRRW mounts and initial work on it by a former GRRW employee--Lloyd Helms.  But it deviates from a typical GRRW factory full stock Leman in that it has a Hawken style hooked breech, a Ron Long Hawken lock, barrel key escutcheons, the inlay on the cheekpiece, and the engraving.

Still a good looking rifle with an interesting history.
Back to top Go down
 
GRRW .50cal Leman Trade Rifle - Robert Allen
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Frontier Muzzleloading :: Muzzleloading Topic :: Traditional Muzzleloading-
Jump to: