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 Suction whilst loading prb?

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Widows Son



Number of posts : 11
Age : 51
Location : Queensland
Registration date : 2019-07-19

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 2:20 am

Hello all,
I’ve finally got to the range this morning to fire my Pedersoli Plainsman .45

I’ve been shooting traditional muzzleloaders for 40 years and I have never experienced this problem. I wonder if anyone has any advice. 

I’m using a 440 round ball with .015 patches. My lubricant is a my tried and true beeswax olive oil mix. 

I can start the prb with my thumb and it slides down the bore as it should, however, the damned weird part, is that the load sticks to my ramrod and returns up to the muzzle. I have to use my heavy brass cleaning rod to “pack” it on the powder charge. 

I have never experienced this phenomenon before. It’s almost like the rifling is not gripping the prb. I can feel a definite suctioning when I withdraw the ramrod. 
Accuracy at 25 meters was quite good. 
This rifle was made in 1976, and whilst it has been taken care of, the rifling looks rather shallow. The bore is shiny and shows no pitting.

This is my first pedersoli rifle. I don’t know if the rifling was originally shallow cut from the factory, or if it has just worn down over the last 43 years. Or, maybe the rifling isn’t the issue? The nipple that came with the rifle had a big hollow base. Perhaps that has something to do with the suction?

I’m going back to the range tomorrow for round two. I’ll report on what happens. However if any wiser men than I have experienced this kind of loading problem I’d like to hear about it 

Regards
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16313
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 2:57 am

Sounds like a VERY loose patched ball. I'd increase the patch thickness. Also inspect the ball seater on the ramrod, could be that its catching up on the patch and pulling it back out as you remove the rod?

If "suction" is pulling the ball back up with the ramrod, I'd say that patch is much to thin.
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Renegadehunter

Renegadehunter

Male Number of posts : 88
Age : 46
Location : Idaho
Registration date : 2018-10-12

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 8:34 am

I agree with way too thin of a patch, being able to thumb start it seems really loose to me.  If it is that loose with a .015" patch then I'd jump to a .445 ball.  Another thought is too much patch material so it is folding around the ball and the excess is being squeezed over the top of the ball and around the ramrod and gripping it?  Too much left over patch material combined with a loose fit and I think it could do that. 

Store bought patches or cut your own?  If store bought see what caliber the label says they are for.  If cut your own, how big are you making them?
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10394
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 8:59 am

I agree it's a loose patch. Is it a flint or caplock? If it's a caplock don't leave the hammer down on the nipple so the air can push out.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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Buck Conner
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Buck Conner

Male Number of posts : 3441
Age : 79
Location : UT
Registration date : 2015-10-20

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PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 1:26 pm

.
Change your patch thickness and go to the next size ball, that should correct the problem. Everything you have been told is correct for things to consider.  :tup2

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Widows Son



Number of posts : 11
Age : 51
Location : Queensland
Registration date : 2019-07-19

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PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 3:53 pm

Thanks for your replies. I will try a .445 ball and different patching. 

I may have given the wrong impression when I said I can start the prb with my thumb. It’s very snug and I can only just get it seated in the muzzle crown. 

It’s a caplock btw.
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OldMtnMan

OldMtnMan

Male Number of posts : 10394
Age : 76
Location : Buena Vista, Colorado
Registration date : 2010-09-23

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 4:47 pm

A proper fit means you'll need to give a good smack to a ball starter. If you can push it in with your thumb and then push it down with ramrod, it's too loose.

_________________
Pete

I'm addicted to black powder.
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mark1945
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mark1945

Male Number of posts : 217
Age : 74
Location : Portland Texas
Registration date : 2015-08-20

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 13th 2019, 8:27 pm

Just looked in my Pedersoli handbook and all there 45 cal. use 445 round balls.

_________________
CVA 50 cal Mountain Rifle         Pedersoli Quigley 45/70          Pedratti  45/90  sharps                             
CVA 50 cal Mountain Pistol        Pedersoli Quigley 45/120        Lyman Great Plains 54 cal Flintlock
2 CVA 45 cal  Kentucky Rifles    Pedersoli Kodiak Safari 72 cal  Pietta 1858 Remington New Army 44 cal
Cabelas 58 cal Hawken             Colt Navy 36 cal                     Pietta 1863 Remington pocket rev 31 cal
Pedersoli Kodiak 58 cal             CVA 58 Cal. Mountain Rifle      Classic Arms Co 44 Cal New Orleans Ace
CVA 45 Cal Derringer               TC Renegade 54cal                 Navy Arms Co. Pietta 12 gauge double
Pedersoli 12 gauge double        Traditions Crockett 32 cal        2 Traditions Mountain Rifles 50 cal
Pietta 1851 Conf Navy 44
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Mofish



Number of posts : 84
Age : 74
Location : East of Dallas
Registration date : 2018-07-25

Suction whilst loading prb? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Suction whilst loading prb?   Suction whilst loading prb? EmptyAugust 15th 2019, 4:46 am

I cannot imagine "suction" without something on your ramrod either sealing up the bore..like a cleaning jag or something similar. The only other thing that could possibly produce suction would be the ball and patch sticking to the ramrod somehow. I would think maybe a really large patch that would get between the cleaning jag and the barrel  would be about the only culprit here. 
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