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 Black MZ Review

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Black MZ Review   August 2nd 2013, 6:02 pm

Guys, Carlos hooked me up with a can of the Alliant Black MZ to test and review. I keep seeing questions about this powder popping up on the forums and so it was time to get some to try out and make the info available.

First off, Yes, its made by American Pioneer and most likely off the Shockey's Gold as it is a dark grey/black color and has that unique brown sugar smell American Pioneer shooters know well. Uniform of the powder granules is not AS chunky as with the original American Pioneer. The consistency I noticed is a LOT more uniform in size. Please keep in mind that when i took the picture of the powder granules, My camera was aprox. 2 inches away from the powder so I could offer a clear close up picture.

Just a couple pics for now, I will get things ready to test in the next few days.



Last edited by FrontierMuzzleloading on August 2nd 2013, 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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falcon

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 2nd 2013, 6:28 pm

i've burned about five pounds of BlackMZ in the past year or so.  A ballistitian friend and i have done some testing of Black MZ using my TC Black Diamond and Encore.   Like all APP powders, Black MZ must have a tight fitting sabot crunched down on the powder.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 2nd 2013, 6:43 pm

That it will! I am using the 300gr PT Gold with the snug fitting EZ Load Harvester sabot.
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Marty
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 2nd 2013, 10:44 pm

Do the powder granules keep their size when you firmly seat a bullet, or will they fragment Question
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 2nd 2013, 10:49 pm

like most subs, they will crush.
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Spitfire



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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 3rd 2013, 12:22 am

How did it perform Jon ?  It looks like real black powder.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 3rd 2013, 3:58 pm

The local custom muzzleloader barrel maker loves the stuff. His outfit is called Long Hammock Barrels.

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 3rd 2013, 4:29 pm

Very Happy 

It's " KITTY LITTER " Jon  Exclamation Exclamation 

Ray...........Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 3rd 2013, 5:04 pm

@falcon wrote:
i've burned about five pounds of BlackMZ in the past year or so.  A ballistitian friend and i have done some testing of Black MZ using my TC Black Diamond and Encore.   Like all APP powders, Black MZ must have a tight fitting sabot crunched down on the powder.

 What primers do you use with this powder Question

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 6:41 am

"What primers do you use with this powder "

My Encore and CVA Stag Horn use Winchester 209 shotgun primers.  My TC Black Diamond currently uses #11 primers:  It previously used musket primers; there was no difference in point of impact at changeover.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 7:27 am

How clean does it burn Falcon ?
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 3:08 pm

I have shot 2 bottles of it in the past year.  While the kernel size is better than APP I have found that when I weigh the charge I usually get tighter groups by 3/4 of an inch.  In your testing where would you rank it as far as velocity with 777 ?
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 5:29 pm

"How clean does it burn Falcon ?"

Very clean. Like all the APP powders.

It leaves a light residue in the barrel. After several rounds a residue is formed in the muzzle that makes starting the sabot/bullet hard. Once past that residue ramming becomes easy. A moist patch on the short starter takes care of that. i have fired as many as 20 rounds without swabbing. One day i fired ten rounds without swabbing into a 100 yard group that measured just over 2".


"While the kernel size is better than APP I have found that when I weigh the charge I usually get tighter groups by 3/4 of an inch."

It works much better when it's weighed.

Strange thing about the APP powders. The fines are lighter in weight than the larger granules: 3F weighs less than 2F. The opposite is true of Pyrodex and 777. It's these fines that cause the problems.

i measure my powder very carefully by pouring it into the measure and striking it off level with my finger. The other day i weighed some 110 grain measured charges of Black MZ. Weighed five charges that averaged 97.14 grains with an extreme spread of .8 grains. Then the sixth charge weighed 94.6 grains. i'm going to screen some Pinnacle and Black MZ.

"In your testing where would you rank it as far as velocity with 777 ?"

It's not as powerful as 777. 777 is a very powerful and consistent powder.

We chronographed Black MZ using my TC Encore. Our 100 grain weighed charges gave velocities of 1,825-1,840 fps when used with the 250 grain SST/Shockwave bullet in the short four petal black sabot. The velocity of the same load fired from the 22" barrel of my TC Black Diamond was 75-100 fps slower.

JSG, Pinnacle and Black MZ give good velocity at low pressure becuase of it's burning characteristics.





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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 6:14 pm

Okay I was able to get out this evening with Black MZ and my first time out, I think I did excellent as far as accuracy goes for 75 yards.

#1 key to accuracy with American Pioneer / Black MZ Powders, COMPRESS IT! You can easily compress this powder 1/2" and it reacted perfectly with my sabot/bullet combo.

Recently I made some videos using T7 and explaining crud ring, ect. ect. And today Black MZ grouped exactly where I had been hitting with T7 pellets, velocity is unknown so far but I will get to that as soon as I can.

Swabbed between each shot with a mixture of soapy water & Moose milk. This cleaning solution is superb! I had each patch squealing as I was swabbing the bore. Shot #1 on a freshly cleaned bore is the shot in the low left side of the group.  The next 4 shots, well.... They were okay for a first time out with new powder.



Not pictured, but I took 2 more shots without swabbing and they showed very little sign of a crud ring. Using a primer like the Remington Kleanbore, CCI Inline MZL or Winchester 777, may have completely removed any sign of a crud ring. The group however, did open up to 2" for the 2 shots.


Last edited by FrontierMuzzleloading on August 5th 2013, 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 6:33 pm

If they could ever get their kernel size uniformity the same as 777 so that the volume measure would give the same type accuracy that weighed charges do they'd have something.  I do love this powder in my sidelocks. I think it ignites easier than either Pyrodex or 777, and using the same in between saliva patch that I use with 777 accuracy and clean up are easy.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 6:36 pm

Very true, sidelocks love the stuff.

I am all reloaded for Tuesday. I am upping it to 110 grains and will run it through the Chony chronograph.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 4th 2013, 8:44 pm

That's some good shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 9:04 am

Ever try pounding it into a real powder?

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 9:24 am

Nothing wrong with that group Jon !

Pete if you pound it into a powder it'll run out the flash channel when you pour it down the barrel Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 10:07 am

I didn't mean to pound it into a fine powder. I meant down to a 3F size to get rid of all the air between the kernals.

I think that's why it's not as strong as other powders. Two much air in the load.

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 11:46 am

Yes and that might be the reason why it works better when you compress it.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 12:02 pm

Muley wrote:
Ever try pounding it into a real powder?

What a Face I don't think I'd want to manually reduce the stock size of the granules so that it would compress better...especially if you rely solely on VOLUME to measure your powder loads.
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 12:38 pm

Just use 10gr less to start, and chrono it.

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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 12:38 pm

You can always sift the finer granules out and try that to see if there will be any improvement in velocity .
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PostSubject: Re: Black MZ Review   August 5th 2013, 3:06 pm

Muley wrote:
Just use 10gr less to start, and chrono it.

 Idea OR ...perhaps you could first VOLUME measure ( say 100 grains right out of the canister ) , then WEIGH it. That way if you want to crush a batch of it, from that batch you can simply "weigh-out" whatever 100 grains/volume came out to from the canister to give you an equivalent charge.

Bottom-line, I guess I'm not one much for using bulky, black powder substitutes.  If the granules themselves are not consistent, to me it's more difficult to get consistent bullet seating.
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