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shaw24



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PostSubject: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 7:19 am

I got into muzzleloading a couple years ago and shot my first deer with my CVA Optima. I really had fun shooting my gun but got turned off really quick with all the fowling and cleaning that came with it. I was using T7 pellets and every couple shots had to clean, and clean, and clean. The last couple years I've been using the trusty ole 870 for deer but I started reading about BH209 and how much cleaner it is so it peaked my interest. Since then I have been researching out the a$$ anything muzzleloading and boy have a learned quite a bit since my first year!!

My 295g Powerbelts have been replaced with 245g Barnes T-EZ's, T7 pellets have been replaced with BH209, got the new CVA Blackhorn QRBP. The only thing I need now are some decent primers. Can't find the CCI 209M's or Federal 209A's anywhere. I did find some Remington STS primers but wasn't sure if they were trustworthy. Any advice on anything would be greatly appreciated.

We generally hunt over corn/bean fields so distance is really important. With my smoothbore 870 my max is about 75-80 yards. I would really like to get my Optima shooting 150-200 yards...any suggestions on setting up for this would be great too. I'm planning on sighting in at 50, 100, 150 and 200. I've read a lot of ppl like to be 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yds.

Thanks all Very Happy
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Bear Claw
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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 7:50 am

Use a 150yd zero, and see where it's hitting at 100 and 200. It should be an overall compromise. Unless you have a BDC scope, and then you can be more accurate.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 7:55 am

I use Winchester 209 primers in my Bone Collector but I think the CCI maybe slightly better in the CVA.  As far as shooting out as far as you want to go, you may want to look into a scope for muzzleloaders that has the yardage marks for 100, 150, 200 and 250 yards.  If you go this route, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT EACH MARK IS CAPABLE OF.  Shoot at each mark on the scope to find exactly where it hits with the load you will be using, you will have to adjust your scope if you change your load as well.  I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 with the 250 DOA and I like it for the money.  If I were to do it again I would look at a Leupold.  Those T-EZ bullets are awesome!

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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 7:56 am

You will be fine with Win W209 primers or Fiocchi 616 primers as well. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING THAT SAYS MUZZLELOADER PRIMER!!  You'll need some small drill bits & torch tip cleaners to remove carbon from inside of your breech plug. Use the drill bit by hand only!!!

110 grains of Bh209 (by volume) is the most common load but you can start at 90 & work your way up until you find the sweet spot.

As for longer range set ups, I would suggest a DNZ mount  & a Leupold VXR Firedot scope with CDS. Both of these are available at Ed's Gun Shop. 910-692-7936 Ask for Carlos. If the Leupold is too much, look at a Redfield Revolution with Accurange or a Revenge M/L scope. The next one down with good glass & hold over wires is the Bushnell Trophy XLT. These will all do a great job for you & get you the light & clarity that you need for those shots.

As for your comment about being 2 to 3 inches high......DON'T GO BY THAT! You MUST get out there & practice at all of those ranges to know just where your POI is. I can't stress this enough.....PRACTICE....PRACTICE....PRACTICE!

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I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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shaw24



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 8:22 am

Muley wrote:
Use a 150yd zero, and see where it's hitting at 100 and 200. It should be an overall compromise. Unless you have a BDC scope, and then you can be more accurate.
This is the info I was looking for! I will be using the Konus scope the gun came with...I know it's pretty low quality but new scope isn't in the budget. Are these yardages still achievable with this scope?
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shaw24



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 8:27 am

GregK wrote:
You will be fine with Win W209 primers or Fiocchi 616 primers as well. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING THAT SAYS MUZZLELOADER PRIMER!!  You'll need some small drill bits & torch tip cleaners to remove carbon from inside of your breech plug. Use the drill bit by hand only!!!

110 grains of Bh209 (by volume) is the most common load but you can start at 90 & work your way up until you find the sweet spot.

As for longer range set ups, I would suggest a DNZ mount  & a Leupold VXR Firedot scope with CDS. Both of these are available at Ed's Gun Shop. 910-692-7936 Ask for Carlos. If the Leupold is too much, look at a Redfield Revolution with Accurange or a Revenge M/L scope. The next one down with good glass & hold over wires is the Bushnell Trophy XLT. These will all do a great job for you & get you the light & clarity that you need for those shots.

As for your comment about being 2 to 3 inches high......DON'T GO BY THAT! You MUST get out there & practice at all of those ranges to know just where your POI is. I can't stress this enough.....PRACTICE....PRACTICE....PRACTICE!
Thanks for the primer recommendations! I planned on practicing for sure - what is good to use for attaching targets? I need something light and easy to move. What does everyone use?? I've heard of ppl using election signs but don't have any right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 8:43 am

shaw24 wrote:
Muley wrote:
Use a 150yd zero, and see where it's hitting at 100 and 200. It should be an overall compromise. Unless you have a BDC scope, and then you can be more accurate.
This is the info I was looking for! I will be using the Konus scope the gun came with...I know it's pretty low quality but new scope isn't in the budget. Are these yardages still achievable with this scope?
The scope isn't that bad. I've had them, and it wouldn't bother me to have another one.

With that scope try a 100yd zero, and then check how the lower lines are at 150 and 200 yds. Whatever you do, don't trust the the yardages to be exactly what they're suppose to be. Too many variables. Check them with your load at all the yardages, and then don't change the load. So, get the load you want to stay with. Zero at 100 yds, and then shoot at 150 and 200 yds, and see which line lines up for those yardages.

You'll also need to be aware of crosswinds at 200 yds. ML bullets get blown around more than CF bullets.

It's always better to take the shortest shot you can on game.

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 11:16 am

I use Remington 97 (209) primers left over from shotgun shell reloading years ago. I still have about 1000 left and intend to use them. They are thinner (front to rear) than CCIs so you have to put more shims in the breech plug of an Optima to prevent blow-by but they have worked just fine for me with BH209.

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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 12:18 pm

I forgot to tell you that the Rem STS do work just fine as well. The Konus will do the job as well. Keep us posted on how things go.

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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biddler2



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 25th 2013, 10:24 pm

I've used fiocchi 616 primers also. Velocity and a good BC bullet helps, it seems strange but a heavier bullet is better for long range shooting. Less wind movement and less drop out further. Plus more energy which is important at those distances. 
I've used a jam it target in the past in bean/corn fields for shooting. Practicing at those distances is a must. Also remember to bring along a solid shooting rest, trying to hold steady at those ranges can be tricky. A little movement becomes a lot when the distance is doubled. 
Which area in the state are you from. I lived most of my life in the Anderson/Muncie area. Hunt down in Hoosier National Forest sometimes Salamonie reservoir.
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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 26th 2013, 8:05 am

I shoot at a conservation club so I just hang my targets on their backers. I see a lot of gun shops sell target holders now

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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shaw24



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 26th 2013, 12:04 pm

biddler2 wrote:
I've used fiocchi 616 primers also. Velocity and a good BC bullet helps, it seems strange but a heavier bullet is better for long range shooting. Less wind movement and less drop out further. Plus more energy which is important at those distances. 
I've used a jam it target in the past in bean/corn fields for shooting. Practicing at those distances is a must. Also remember to bring along a solid shooting rest, trying to hold steady at those ranges can be tricky. A little movement becomes a lot when the distance is doubled. 
Which area in the state are you from. I lived most of my life in the Anderson/Muncie area. Hunt down in Hoosier National Forest sometimes Salamonie reservoir.
I've heard a lot of people say good things about those primers. My shooting rest consists of my truck bed, a few cornhole bags, and my shoulder! Is that considered good?? haha

I'm over by Crawfordsville - so west central. Love that area of the state! Hoosier Nation Forst that is, not Muncie Very Happy
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shaw24



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 26th 2013, 12:05 pm

GregK wrote:
I shoot at a conservation club so I just hang my targets on their backers. I see a lot of gun shops sell target holders now
Greg thanks for this!!! It reminded me that my little town has a conservation club that probably has a range! I had forgotten all about it.
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biddler2



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 26th 2013, 5:14 pm

GregK provides great advice and has helped me out a lot. Your rest isn't horrible but can be improved, I was thinking more along the lines of how you plan to steady your shots in the field. I like my Summit Viper for providing support. I works better for me than just shouldering the rifle for longer shots. Little wiggles are magnified at 200.  Have you tried Carlos from Ed's gun shop for primers yet?  They are great to deal with and don't kill you on shipping.
I didn't think you would love Muncie!  Hoosier National is an amazing place. I've hunted several areas of it over the years. Was just there for the opener of Firearm. I've been through Crawfordsville several times going to Sugar Creek by Waveland for smallmouth fishing.

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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 26th 2013, 5:45 pm

You guys & anyone else are always welcome to any info I may have. When I joined this forum I was well received & received tons of help & info. Especially from Carlos!!! I view every comment that I ever got from anyone as valuable. I enjoy everything about the sport including sharing my experiences.

Shaw....Conservation clubs are great places to learn & share.

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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shaw24



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 27th 2013, 6:41 am

biddler2 wrote:
GregK provides great advice and has helped me out a lot. Your rest isn't horrible but can be improved, I was thinking more along the lines of how you plan to steady your shots in the field. I like my Summit Viper for providing support. I works better for me than just shouldering the rifle for longer shots. Little wiggles are magnified at 200.  Have you tried Carlos from Ed's gun shop for primers yet?  They are great to deal with and don't kill you on shipping.
I didn't think you would love Muncie!  Hoosier National is an amazing place. I've hunted several areas of it over the years. Was just there for the opener of Firearm. I've been through Crawfordsville several times going to Sugar Creek by Waveland for smallmouth fishing.
I already appreciate all the advice greg, you and everyone else has given!! You know, I haven't thought about that yet so I'm glad you brought it up. I hunt from the ground so probably a $30 pair of shooting sticks??

No but I've heard nothing but good about him so I will keep him in mind. Tried all our local fun shops and all the had were ML primers. I did find some STS's last night so I bought them.

I've never been to that national forest...is it public hunting land? I would love to check it out though. That's funny b/c I grew up just outside Waveland and have spent a ton of time on Sugar Creek. Worked at one of the canoe rentals in high school and do a lot of smallie fishing on it these days! Hard to beat Sugar Creek smallmouth!! Small world!
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biddler2



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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 27th 2013, 7:21 am

Hoosier National Forest  is public land, we mostly hunt the upper portion that surrounds Monroe. I've been to the southern portion down by Patoka but that area added another hour to the drive. It's totally different than hunting the fields and wood lots of central and northern Indiana. Deer are not as big body wise since they eat less corn/ beans but the atmosphere is worth it. 
My brother caught his biggest smallie about 200 yards up stream of Danger rock. 

I've never used shooting sticks so I can't help you there.  The steadiest rest you can find/ carry is what your looking for. The better your zero the better your rifle will preform with less support.

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GregK

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PostSubject: Re: Getting ML Ready for Action!   November 27th 2013, 1:38 pm

Shooting sticks can come in handy if you expect those long shots.

_________________
I hunt with the best

McRem 40cal SML

LEUPOLD 4-12X40 VX-R 30mm, CDS, FIRE DOT
CEB 40/240, 76gr IMR 4895
2600 ft/s

CVA APEX .358 SML & .45 ML
LUEPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R CDS, FIRE DOT, WIND PLEX

Knight Mountainer LTD
45cal / 1-20 twist
LEUPOLD 4-12X50 VX-R 30mm WIND PLEX CDS FIREDOT
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