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 Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol

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PostSubject: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 28th 2014, 1:01 pm

Guys, deer creek has the American which is basically the CVA Mountain Pistol. They are kits and beechwood stocks. Available in 50cal only & either Flintlock or Percussion.

Percussion is $169 and Flint is $189

Phone number: 765-525-6181 They do not have a website.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 28th 2014, 2:41 pm

Any information on the quality of a CVA flint lock? I know T/C's flint locks give a lot of problems. What about CVA's?

If the locks are reliable and well-made, that is a real good price.

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 29th 2014, 12:15 pm

Bob, the lock itself is fine and I personally have never had any trouble with them. The frizzen some times can come soft and you'll have to harden it by heating it cherry red and then dunking into cold water. I did this on my traditions frizzen and shes still sparking like a champ. That was 4-5 years ago to.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 30th 2014, 8:00 am

Jon, is this a fully assembled (completed) pistol or a kit?
Also, is it the 'Plainsman' model or the Mountain pistol? I like the looks of the Mountain pistol a lot more than the Plainsman.

Too bad Deer Creek won't get a website.

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 30th 2014, 9:54 am

mountain pistol.

Everything is all drilled and ready to go, you just sand/file the barrel flats, brown or blue it, sand the wood down smooth and shape it a bit where needed, finish the stock and slap it together. Its a pretty straight forward kit.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   April 30th 2014, 11:49 am

Sorry, I just re-read the original post and see it already has "kit" mentioned.

I think I'll give them a call. Beech wood is usually quite light in color and I don't like blonde stocks.

(I just got a mental picture of a scantily-clad blonde "witch" locked in a Salem, Mass. stock.  :rtup  Twisted Evil )

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 1st 2014, 1:59 pm

I ordered a flintlock kit from them today. With shipping and handling it came to $206.19. The woman on the phone said the stock was about 95% inletted and it may just need sanding and staining.

I hope the lock is worth a flip.

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 1st 2014, 4:11 pm

Perhaps you could do a build along? Very Happy  Wouldn't mind seeing one of these pistols go together.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 1st 2014, 5:27 pm

So you want evidence of my crappy craftsmanship, huh? I'll have to think about that one.  scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 1st 2014, 5:56 pm

lol im sure its not THAT bad. I'd be more than happy to lend a hand with advice on staining and finish.

The locks are good, just a soft frizzen from time to time that gives the cva flintlock its share of problems. Easy fix though.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 1st 2014, 8:09 pm

patocazador wrote:
So you want evidence of my crappy craftsmanship, huh? I'll have to think about that one.  scratch

Believe me, it can't be worse than mine! I had to send my Traditions Kentucky to someone and have it made right since I blundered it up so bad. lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 8th 2014, 8:31 am

I got the kit yesterday. It's going to be a challenge as there are no instructions and a couple of parts were missing. I called and she said they would send them out. However, there are no instructions available.
The stock is about 95% inletted. I tried to dry fit the major items in the stock and only the bare barrel (which has rust on it) will drop down into the inletting with about a 1/32" or larger space around it. The nosecap, trigger assembly, trigger guard, belt hook, etc. all need further inletting. The wood is about 1/16" proud everywhere it is inletted so there is plenty of extra wood for shaping and sanding.
The flintlock assembly is very rough and the frizzen is only a rough casting. I doubt that it has been hardened sufficiently to provide good spark. I will have to dis assemble the lock to polish everything and lube it well after checking the frizzen for spark. I know that Kasenite is about impossible to find anymore but something called "Cherry Red" is supposed to be an adequate substitute.

This is definitely not a kit that you just assemble, sand, and stain but it's not just a collection of parts with a rough-cut block of wood that's not shaped either. Almost all of the metal parts need filing, sanding, and polishing.

I may take photos of certain steps but that depends on how exasperated I might get.    scratch  study pale

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 10th 2014, 6:27 pm

Bob thats very interesting. The one I saw at the store wasnt rough shaped at all. Can you take some good pictures of it? I figured you'd have to shave down the nose area, they over size them so you can get a good fit. Just make sure you shave the entire stock from the lock panels forward for a smooth line. Also keep the wedge key plates screwed in, they let you know when its time to stop.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 10th 2014, 8:22 pm

On first inspection it looks like it could be just a bolt-in job for the parts but the stock is just short of letting things fit together by about 1/16" everywhere except for the barrel area which will have to be bedded to fill in the small gap. That's better than being too large everywhere. With the tools I have available, it will take about 30-40 hours of work to finish it I imagine. It took me over an hour just to file and sand down the barrel to get rid of the rust and slight pitting. The sights have to still be fitted to the dovetails and final sanding and polishing the barrel smooth prior to bluing and assembly.

The lock will take quite a while to disassemble, polish, and reassemble since it's so grainy.

Jon, is there a way to see what inventory Deer Creek has to sell? I can't find a website for them.

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 10th 2014, 8:24 pm

Sadly no, they do not have a website. The catalog lists some stuff but not real pictures, they are very old school.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 15th 2014, 8:34 am

I took off the frizzen and frizzen spring and polished the bearing surfaces this morning on the Deer Creek pistol. I used a Dremel-type handpiece and polished with an abrasive paper disc, a pumice-impregnated rubber wheel and a ragg wheel with polishing compound. I thought I might have gone too far and the frizzen spring wouldn't be strong enough. When I reassembled the parts, I found that I should have removed twice as much as I did. It is still too hard for the frizzen to pop out of the way. I worked the trigger sear a little but didn't take off the main spring or hammer assembly. I didn't want to have too many parts laying around on the bench and get confused on what goes where. 

I haven't received the missing parts yet so will wait until I have everything in hand before proceeding too far.
The barrel still needs some filing to get through one pitted spot and then sanding to get rid of the scratches. I think I'm going to use "Express Blue" and blue the metal pieces. If I like the looks, I'll probably do the same with my .45 long rifle.



Edit:  4:50 pm.
Sure enough, the hammer with flint wouldn't even open the frizzen when tripped. I disassembled the lock again and did a 'blitzkrieg' on the spring and frizzen bearing. I polished it with 5 succeedingly smaller grits and finished with a chamois wheel with jewelers' rouge. I reassembled and fired the lock, the frizzen opened normally and produced good spark with a sawn American flint from TOW.
Meanwhile, the missing parts showed up in the mail box and I proceeded to finish inletting the lock assembly. It fits flush to the wood now now and seems to be in line to be close to being flush with the barrel although the barrel is still in the vice awaiting final finishing.
I also used cold bluing to reblue the frizzen spring.

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 16th 2014, 8:30 pm

I spent all afternoon trying to fit the pieces together and finally got it done. I had to shorten the 2 lock screws and the tang screw 3-4x to keep them from impinging on the hammer and frizzen spring and trigger guard. I filed down the lower rib, tang assembly, sights and barrel tenon until everything fit pretty good.

The trigger guard is cast pot metal as is the nose cap. The trigger guard is not cast correctly and needs to be bent to level the front in the stock. I heated it with an alcohol torch and rapped it with a leather hammer. It got better but I chickened out because I felt it would fracture if I continued. I filed the nose cap to get it to fit and reduced the wood excess around the lock and tang.

I need to disassemble everything and polish more plus do a lot of work on the stock. I didn't like the rounded butt of the grip so I flattened it. It looks a lot better now in my opinion. I have to shape the grip to fit my hand better and then I can smooth, stain and oil the stock. I also have to blue the metal parts once they're polished. 
I found a hairline longitudinal crack on the left side so bedding is now mandatory.

I estimate that I'm about half done.  Suspect

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 17th 2014, 12:45 am

Can't wait to see the end product
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 17th 2014, 7:07 am

I hope you're patient, Spit. I've got a bad shoulder and it is killing me today. One day of work and two days of rest .. pale

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 17th 2014, 8:30 am

Here's a photo of the pistol with the parts in place but with nothing permanently installed. The stock still has a long way to go.



Here's one of the main problems with this kit .. the position of the vent liner with the slot pointing to the 4:00 position. This will allow 4F priming powder to trickle down into and behind the lock, thus creating a hazard if not cleaned thoroughly by dismantling the gun each time.
The other thing I don't like is the position of the touch hole being so close to the bottom of the priming pan.


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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 17th 2014, 8:35 am

Yeah that faults is one thing about the kits we have to live with, got a .32 here that was kit built as well and had to fix a lot of things I did not like and that affected accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 18th 2014, 11:05 am

I tried to test fire the pistol this morning. A .490 ball was too big to use even with a .010 patch so I used a .457 ball with .022 ticking. I cocked and dropped the hammer 7 times before it fired. It only sparked the 1st and last time. I'm pretty sure the frizzen is soft and ordered some hardening compound from Brownell's.
I used a grinding wheel and burlew rubber disc to reshape the primer pan to lower it in relation to the touch hole where it contacts the barrel. It's slightly better now.

I disassembled the whole gun and started to reduce the stock to even it up with the hardware. Lots to do still. I'm going to disassemble the lock completely and work on the sear and pawl(?) to get the trigger down to about 3 lbs. from its current 10 lbs. I don't know how to get the slop out of the crude trigger assembly so will have to live with it as it is. The hammer's side has to be polished to avoid rubbing on the side of the stock and barrel. The mainspring also is moving and rubbing on the lock plate.
(This gun is made of very cheap components and I don't recommend anyone to buy it as it isn't worth the money.)

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 18th 2014, 11:15 am

Sometimes you buy something from the factory for big bucks expecting good quality and you get crap as well  Surprised
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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 18th 2014, 11:26 am

Another thing I discovered with it is the barrel was so rough inside (and out) that it tore cleaning patches to shreds. I scrubbed the bore 110 times with Remington 40X Bore Cleaner but it didn't help much. Right where the crown of the muzzle meets the lands and grooves, there are several small blobs of metal that look like welding rod spherical trash. Maybe the barrel is sleeved and they welded the two ends??? and left weld residue behind?

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PostSubject: Re: Heads up on Deer Creek American Pistol   May 18th 2014, 11:43 am

Can be tooling marks as well , give the barrel a good lapping with progressively finer grades of valve grinding compound and see how it comes out then.
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