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hawgslayer
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PostSubject: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   September 30th 2014, 4:22 pm

Leaving the .58 cal home this deer season (sorry Jonathan). Reason being..............According to the Goex site.................

70 grs of 2F will give 1550 fps,
80   ''   ''   ''   ''    ''    1730  '' ,
90   ''   ''   ''    ''   ''    1870  ''
100  ''  ''   ''    ''   ''    1990   ''

60    ''  ''   ''    ''   ''     970   ''
70    ''  ''   ''    ''   ''    1050   ''

After hunting the lease for the last few years and seeing where the blinds are set up, at the edges of the crop fields, I feel that I need a flatter, faster rifle with me in the blind. If the blinds were in the woods, which is the only way I used to hunt deer, I would have my .58 without a doubt.
My load will be a .490 Hornady L/B, CCI Magnum caps, .015/.018 patch with mink oil and 85/90 grains of 2F. My PA Hunter has a 32'' barrel with a 1-66 twist.

Ray............ t up

Any thoughts or opinions Question Question

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   September 30th 2014, 5:16 pm

You're limited to 100 yards with the 50cal and patched ball.

The 58 will easily stretch out to 150 and kill it.

I say the 58 has the upper hand regardless of FPS.
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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   September 30th 2014, 5:55 pm

I don't understand your chart Ray. Are the different velocities due to different calibers, barrel length, rate of twist, weight of projectile, or all of the above?

Which is which?????  scratch Dunno

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   September 30th 2014, 7:29 pm

Jonathan,
Your probably right but I feel that my comfort zone is around 80 yards. Maybe if I had some younger
eyes I would go for that 150 yard shot..... scratch


Bob,
All that info is from the GOEX .com site round ball ballistics chart.........Both rifles have 32" barrels and both are 1-66 twist.

1st group of stats are for the .50 cal.......490 lead ball
2nd group is for the .58 cal....................570   ''     ''

Ray........... :rtup

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   September 30th 2014, 7:38 pm

oh shoot, the 58 will be perfect at that distance. That ball will plow right through! You really should experience that 58 on deer LOL. Mine left a good 3" hole in my deers front shoulder but lordy, that one was a mite on the small side.
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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 8:42 am

Yeah big balls don't need a lot of speed to do a decent job , i'll use the .58 as well
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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 8:58 am

Gents,
My thoughts were to use a PRB that had a little more speed to get to the deer faster that might be out to 70/80 yards. I know that the .58 can and will do the job. It's just slower if the deer were to move or start to walk away....... scratch

Does that make any sense Question Question Question

Ray......... :rtup

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 9:28 am

Not at all Ray. That .58 will get to any deer long before it can react to the noise. You're not shooting a bow.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 12:59 pm

scratch

Well I think that if a hunter is aiming for a lung shot and the deer takes a step or 2 and depending on the distance, it could change that POI from a double lung to a liver or gut shot depending the size  of the deer taking the step.
Noise has nothing to do with it. nono

Ray.............

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:03 pm

not at 80 yards IMO. Its to short of a distance unless it really leaps and takes off, even then, a gut shot with a 58 is better than a gut shot with a 50! Two sides of this comparison! LOL.


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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:10 pm

Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

UNCLE,,,,, UNCLE,,,,,,UNCLE  Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Ray

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:13 pm

How many deer tags do you can up there Ray?
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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:15 pm

hawgslayer wrote:
scratch

Well I think that if a hunter is aiming for a lung shot and the deer takes a step or 2 and depending on the distance, it could change that POI from a double lung to a liver or gut shot depending the size  of the deer taking the step.
Noise has nothing to do with it. nono

Ray.............

If you think so, you should just take shots that the deer is still. Otherwise lead it if it's running. I believe you're underestimating the time it takes the ball to get there.

btw I don't think the Goex chart is very accurate. The weights are off for one thing. Unless you're shooting a 293gr ball? You can always use more powder. You're using a pretty light load.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:28 pm

A hunter can apply for 1 or 4 to start with for the fire arm season. When all the lotteries are over for the fire arm season a hunter can buy tags, (permits) for counties that have tags OTC.
So, if by some great streak of luck I fill my 4 tags the first 2 seasons, I could go to the DNR or a sporting goods store or Bass Pro or Cabela's and buy permits for counties that have permits left over.
For the archers, when you apply, you get 2 tags right off the bat and your archery tags are good thru out the entire state where as you have to apply to a certain county for fire arm season and THOSE TAGS ARE ONLY GOOD FOR THAT COUNTY.

Ray

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:31 pm

You're lucky. I can get one deer tag every other year if i'm lucky with any weapon. Elk is much easier to get.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 1:51 pm

It would seem to me that a bullet traveling at 2700 or 3000 fps would make contact with a deer that is just about ready to take a step or takes a step just as you squeeze the round off has a better chance of hitting those lungs then a bullet traveling 1050 fps. The farther the distance, the longer the time for that PRB to get there at that speed, the POI is now in the guts.
Pete, at one time I was speaking of the Lyman ballistic charts for the PRB and you told me to use the Goex chart. "Now it's not very accurate". 
I think I'll draw my own conclusions. Thanks for the replies...........

Ray

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 2:04 pm

Your thinking is correct Ray except you're thinking that the deer will move a foot or two during bullet flight. In reality, it's only moving a few inches ... if any.
Plus at 1050 fps if your bullet flies for one second, it will go 350 yards, not 70 or 80. The 70 or 80 yards will take about 1/4 second.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 2:09 pm

Cool

Thanks for all the replies gents. I value all your opinions.   :tup2

Ray........... t up

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 2:16 pm

I did say to look at the Goex chart, but then I noticed the weight of the balls. I don't know why they're so heavy, but that will effect the fps. I don't like any chart to be honest. I'd rather see the numbers on a chrono. I do that more for drop and energy. I'd never worry about the ball being to slow to miss the shot.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 3:12 pm

i havent found any chart to be accurate to what they advertise personally. If the weather is ok tomorrow I can chrony some loads and report back Ray.
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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 4:02 pm

Ray, I can only base my opinion on what I do with my White .451 & that is a 465 grain conical with 70gr T7-3F or a 350 hollow point with 65 grains. I would shoot a deer at 100 yards without a concern with either load. Now, with that said.......hunt with the gun that you have the most confidence in, regardless of what myself or anyone else says. The gun that you have confidence in for the place you hunt is the one you want beside you!! Good luck buddy & keep me posted Smile

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 7:06 pm

scratch

I'll have them both with me. The PA Hunter .50 is the back up for the .58 Hawken. I've got time yet to decide which one will be sticking out of the blind's window. Dunno

THANKS ALL, FOR ALL THE REPLIES AND OPINIONS ON THIS POST. :tup2

Ray............ cowyboy hatoff

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 7:12 pm

You could split the difference, and use the .54 Renegade Ray. It's always been the most effective caliber for round balls. More speed than a .58, and more hitting power than a .50.

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 7:18 pm

scratch
That's a good idea Pete. IT'S FOOD FOR THOUGHT. That's for sure scratch

Ray.............. Dunno

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PostSubject: Re: ........ 51 MORE DAYS ...............   October 1st 2014, 7:34 pm

I'm thinking about having another barrel made up for my Renegade Ray. I want a longer, slower twist barrel for a dedicated PRB barrel. At first I was going to make it a .58, but as I got to thinking about it. I think i'll make it a .54. Good for elk and deer with the right load.

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