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1Longbow



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PostSubject: Loading questions   October 25th 2015, 9:27 am

When working up a hunting load ,how important is it to have the ball centered in the patch. If its off center does it make a difference as to where the ball will hit the target? I've been shooting my 50 cal. New englander,and have noticed that 3 shots will hit close to each other and the 4th will hit way wide and either higher  or to the side . I use the same load 85grains FFG ,.015 patch and a 490 ball. I swab the barrel between shots. The only thing I can think of is that the ball is not centered on the patch  and when fired it does'nt engage the rifling evenly. Thoughts--Thank you
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Standing Bear

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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   October 25th 2015, 10:59 am

Or the patch comes away from the ball unevenly. Wouldn't take much uneven pressure near the muzzle to cause a flyer at 50 or more yards.  That's why I cut at the muzzle. 
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   October 25th 2015, 12:45 pm

If that sprue is off center, it will take that ball off target. I did some shooting at 150 yards last year and loaded them off center and they were barely on target. If that sprue is near the rifling its going to cause a weak spot and blow the patch where its so thin due to the flat spot.

Just have to pay attention to the lube on the patches. Pre-lubed are often inconsistent in lube application so some are a little drier and then you get a real nice slick one and thats now out of the group.

Its a huge learning game with patched ball.
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1Longbow



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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   October 25th 2015, 1:05 pm

Thanks for the answers .I was wondering about the patches and the wettness of them . Some did have more lube on them ,so maybe thats the answer.
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   October 26th 2015, 8:00 am

@FrontierGander wrote:
If that sprue is off center, it will take that ball off target. I did some shooting at 150 yards last year and loaded them off center and they were barely on target. If that sprue is near the rifling its going to cause a weak spot and blow the patch where its so thin due to the flat spot.

Just have to pay attention to the lube on the patches. Pre-lubed are often inconsistent in lube application so some are a little drier and then you get a real nice slick one and thats now out of the group.

Its a huge learning game with patched ball.

That's why you should consider using balls that have been swaged or tumbled (no sprue) it makes life much simplier folks. Tumbled is the cheapest, swaged balls are a little pricey over home-made.

Have read about troops (Civil War) members sitting around camp cutting the sprues off the round balls at night. Wondered - were they trying to correct the problem you mention or were they trying to use that little sprue material (many) to cast additional balls???

Always try do the same method every shot (centered ball on patch) or patch strip and cut them the same every time not hitting the sprue. Serious match shooters do the same thing when loading, coming to the firing line, even count their breathing, their position of hold, everything is just like the shot before this one, everything period. That's just the simple answered as they are more detailed - that's another subject and very long. Been there - done that ....

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1Longbow



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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 2nd 2015, 5:10 pm

Anyone using a larger pre cut patch,say a 54 caliber patch instead of a 50 caliber patch in a 50 cal muzzleloader,
I'm using swagged balls
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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 2nd 2015, 5:12 pm

yep I use my 58cal patches on my 50s as well. The larger patch sometimes catches up on my ramrod but not a big deal to deal with.
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Huntin_Dawg1215



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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 2nd 2015, 5:50 pm

Did they use round ball during the War of Northern Aggression that much? Very Happy
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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 3rd 2015, 9:25 am

Back in the mid 80's we started making shooting patches under the name 'Buckhorn Rendezvous Ltd'. 

A neighbor worked at HP Inc., involved with the US Olympic Committee in Colorado Springs for their shooting sports. He had been a bench rest national champion at one time. He got us the contract for making special patches for their cartridge rifles (used for cleaning). Had to have knap on one side of patch and knapless on the other side. He found that the knap would show build up in the chamber face off setting the cartridge case a fraction of a 1,000's. The Committee wanted to use this type of patch (not offered by OxYoke or any other supplier) knapless side to the outside (chamber) while the knapped side to the inside (helped to hold the cleaning liquid) sounds reasonable? After searching material suppliers warehouse we found the fabric and thickness to wanted .015. That made everyone involved happy, first order was 100,000 patches with several more orders to come the first year. I'm trying to work 10 hour days on my regular job and supply the  US Olympic Committee and dealers we had with patches. Not enough hours in the day. Ended up selling the business, now called 'Bridger's Best'.


I found using the larger patches mentioned and trimming off the access worked very nicely. I too used their theory with the knapless side to the outside (chamber/bore), don't really know if it helped. I played with the material for several years, couldn't find any difference using them in a muzzle loader. Mentioned in another 'posting' I have used the larger patches with trimming off access.

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Buck Conner
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 3rd 2015, 9:38 am

@Huntin_Dawg1215 wrote:
Did they use round ball during the War of Northern Aggression that much? Very Happy


War of Northern/Southern Aggression. The War of Northern Aggression" has been used to indicate the Union side as the belligerent party in the war.


They used whatever they had for the muzzleloaders, even used round balls in the breech loaders near the end of the war. 

I purchased  an original muzzleloader (conv. gun - flint to per.), southern musket, it was found to be loaded. The load had three charges in the barrel, last load was a unpatched round ball/powder charge, next was a load of shot with broken glass/powder charge and the first load was a conical bullet/powder charge. Guessing the first and second loads got wet and loaded again then left behind???

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Kentucky Colonel
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PostSubject: Re: Loading questions   November 3rd 2015, 12:14 pm

Hi Buck,

I have heard about this kind of thing. One weapon was found with SEVEN loads- one atop the other- in a battlefield dropped muzzleloader. The rationale for the discovery and others like it was interesting. 

The theory is that in the sheer panic of battle and desperation to get anything loaded and working in your gun in war? This made people do desperate and illogical things. They re-loaded atop themselves when the weapon failed to fire... over and over again. Perhaps even forgetting they had already done this before.

Since I still mutter, 'powder, patch, ball' to myself when loading in little distraction and stress? I can see this happening as people were likely in shock at the time. It is an interesting theory.

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