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 Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?

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PostSubject: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 7:03 pm

The Game: 
Old movie situations with shooting themes will be offered. 

You must make the call... Is it Hollywood Voodoo BS? 
Or, the True Blue truth?

There is a (mostly) right and (mostly) wrong answer. 
Sometimes the right answer will become clear due to 
the responses.

The winner may not be just the 'correct' answer. 

A really clever answer may win the prize. So, the first 
answer has priority, but if you make the judges laugh? 
You just may win the quiz, anyway. When it stops being 
fun, the games will end.

Three 'wins' will earn you a T-Shirt. king

Please, stand by for the first question.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 7:26 pm

The 1941 black and white movie, Sgt. York, stars Gary Cooper. 

Alvin York is a Tennessee hillbilly-gone-wrong-sharpshooter turned pacifist 
who is caught up in the draft and sent to war against the Germans. 

His shooting skill is so great that he wins a turkey shoot, becomes an Army 
shooting instructor, and enables him to single handedly pick off Germans until 
he killed 20 and forced an additional 132 others to surrender to him. The real 
Sgt. York won the Congressional Medal of Honor.

In the movie, Alvin York famously stops at key moments to wet his sights
He licks his thumb and touches the front sight on his rifle. When asked why, 
he claims that it helps him shoot better by 'cutting down the glare.'

Does this work? Is it Hollywood Voodoo or is it True BlueQuestion


Gary Cooper as Sgt. York

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 8:23 pm

Superstition to the max. Hollywood picked up on it.

Wetting the front sight wouldn't stop glare. It would make it worse. Smoking it black would be better.

When the smoked sight wasn't working as in low light. They would lick their finger to remove the smoke from the sight. So, it that situation it's true.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 8:31 pm

hollywood voodoo.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 9:54 pm

Dang, Pete. Way to nail it all down. You win the first round.king
I'll put a little more spin on the next one.

The 1959 movie, Rio Bravo, stars John Wayne, Dean Martin, and Angie Dickinson. I love this movie, but it is a little silly.
 
John T. Chance is a Texas Sheriff who fights bad guys in the town of Rio Bravo with his best friend, Dude. (Hey! It’s a Western. What did you think would happen?) Dude is played by Dean Martin. (Yes. There is singing.) Angie Dickinson plays a very sultry love interest named Feathers who always seems to be present in the Saloon for no declared purpose.
 
In the movie, Sheriff Chance randomly discovers dynamite near the site of the final gun battle. He tells his men to throw the dynamite toward the bad guys so he can shoot it. He hits the dynamite in mid-flight! The impact of his bullets turns the dynamite sticks into improvised hand grenades.
 
Does this work? Is it Hollywood Voodoo or is it True Blue?



Walter Brennan as Stumpy throws dynamite for Sheriff Chance

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 18th 2015, 10:12 pm

Watched that movie 3 times.

My answer is it depends how old the dynamite is. I had looked this up years ago, because me and my buddy found a stick of it once, and wanted to blow it up. Ours was old, and did blow up. A bigger boom than we expected. New dynamite probably won't. The nitroglcerin hasn't weeped out of it yet.

Without that experience. I would have had no clue.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 7:51 am

It HAD to work pretty quick.  Walter Brennan was running out of arm.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 8:20 am

"I love this movie, but it is a little silly."


A LITTLE silly? Isn't that the one with Ricky Nelson standing around doing nothing?

Except for The Shootist, the later John Wayne westerns were pretty darned corny. McLintock is so bad that I can't watch it anymore.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 12:29 pm

@Standing Bear wrote:
It HAD to work pretty quick.  Walter Brennan was running out of arm.

Ha! You are not wrong! Watch the movie. Stumpy gets AIR on his throws!cheers

YES! Ricky Nelson wanders around as Colorado and pitches in with Dean Martin for a 
nice song in the middle of all the brouhaha.

Yes, those old John Wayne movies are often silly. But, I grew up on them and 
love 'em still the same. If McClintock interested you, watch The Quiet Man
It is the MUCH better version of the same kind of story set in Ireland. Since we just lost 
Maureen O'Hara, it would be a nice way to remember her. 

I am gonna hold for more answers on this one. It is a little tricky and some folks 
may not have seen the question. Plus, I need time to write the next one. tongue

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 2:06 pm

I'm so old that I saw these movies in a theater when they were released. The Quiet Man IS good. McLintock sucks as does War Wagon, but the absolute worst ones are a tie, Hatari and Donovan's Reef. The best are The Shootist, The Searchers, The Quiet Man, Hondo, and Stagecoach.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 2:13 pm

You mean I was wrong? It can't be. I tested it.

More details would be the nitroglycerin seeps from it, and that is ignited by the impact. A bullet is definitely impact. So, it has to be older for the seepage to happen. New dynamite probably wouldn't ignite.

That's how it was explained to me when I wanted to know a couple of decades ago.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 5:24 pm

@patocazador wrote:
I'm so old that I saw these movies in a theater when they were released. The Quiet Man IS good. McLintock sucks as does War Wagon, but the absolute worst ones are a tie, Hatari and Donovan's Reef.

Hatari is SO bad I actually love it! Very Happy

Pete, I confess, you threw me for a loop. I know the answer because of direct experience. 
Give me a moment and I will explain.

The 'most correct' answer is that this is Hollywood Voodoo. The full answer will take a bit longer than normal 
since Pete surprised me by bringing up the age of the dynamite.

I have traveled quite a bit.
 
I have been at the bottom of a tin mine in Potosi where I gave a stick of dynamite, cigarettes, coca leaves, and a large bottle of local liquor called Singani to a miner I later learned was already drunk. These are traditional gifts to bring to the mine because the deepest point held the shrines I had come to see. One was to the earth goddess, Pachamama, who was the mountain. But, once underground, we were said to have entered the underworld, ruled by Tio (Uncle). The gifts served to support the poor miners (the dynamite) and appease Tio as we trespassed in his realm. Potosi is in the Andes Mountains of Bolivia.



I took this picture at the mouth of the mine in Bolivia
 
This mine was the most dangerous place I have ever seen. I got separated underground in a low, treacherous, narrow, death-fall ridden tunnel supported by rotting timbers. My helmet light had gone out. Pitch black. Fortunately, I did not panic. I was found by my new-found miner friend. He spoke no Spanish or English; only Quechua. Quechua is one of the many ‘official’ languages of Bolivia. He grinned at me through cracked teeth when he saw me and took a looong pull at the Singani. I realized this had not been his first drink of the day. He stoperd the bottle and BROKE the stick of dynamite I had given him in half. Dynamite is quite safe unless combined with a blasting cap. I had also, separately, given him a blasting cap. He jammed this into the half-stick and set the charge in a cleft in the wall. I was a foot and a half away. I was happy to see the shines. I was much happier to see daylight again.

I know my dynamite was fresh. I know it was safe from any impact. A bullet could hit that stuff and not blow. I know the blasting cap was more dangerous. But, I do not know two things... 

I. Does dynamite become unstable with age? It could be. I have heard of this, but only in old movies. 
II. It MAY be that earlier dynamite manufacturing created a less stable final product than today that became unstable as it aged. So, age is not a problem anymore. I just do not know.

In any case, Pete gets the win! kingking

And, if anyone KNOWS for certain? I would be very curious to know about old dynamite!bom

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 6:26 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 6:42 pm

i'd rather not play with it in the first place LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 6:46 pm

True.

We found it in an old mine when I was living in Big Bear Ca. Tons of mines there.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 6:48 pm

Interesting, but inconclusive. It does not tell us anything about the state/age, or preparation of the dynamite. Crying or Very sad

They do refer to a 'fuse.' So, it was primed in some fashion. cherry

I know I witnessed dynamite handled, broken in two, and banged around- hard- and was told by the experts that what we were handling was impossible to detonate via ANY impact... Unless! You added a detonator. Then a .22 could VERY EASILY make it go BOOM! Shocked

I took GREAT care to keep the blasting cap detonator separate from the dynamite. 

However, I would not care to risk my life over it. So, maybe we just leave it at... 'Don't 
try this at home!"

And, I am glad you told me how you got your mitts on an old stick of dynamite! I was wondering!

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 7:30 pm

I have one question: What kind of fool would go into a South American mine? scratch  Maybe they should have called you to go down in that tube in Chile to bring those guys out.  crazy

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 8:17 pm

@patocazador wrote:
I have one question: What kind of fool would go into a South American mine? scratch  Maybe they should have called you to go down in that tube in Chile to bring those guys out.  crazy

Me, apparently. It sounded like a good idea at the time. I was there as a Fulbright Scholar and invited to go for the cultural value of a visit to those shrines at the bottom of the mine. As there were fliers that announced tourist tours there, I thought it would be safe and secure. NOT SAFE AT ALL. I do not recommend it.

I am a big fella. I do not fit well in enclosed spaces.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 8:23 pm

It was bad enough when my nephew and I went into an OLD abandoned mine. It was pretty awesome but after seeing the cave in at the end, it kind of started to freak you out.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 8:50 pm

Colorado School of Mines, the engineering university, has an explosives club that also serves to instruct in safety and use of explosives. And, the club is housed in the....you guessed it...the Mining Engineering Department.
What we learned there was:


Nobel's original recipe for dynamite was nitroglycerin, diatomaceous earth, and sodium carbonate. The diatomaceous earth was used to stabilize the nitroglycerin which, by itself was unstable. The more modern dynamite uses nitrocellulose as a stabilizer instead of diatomaceous earth.

Almost all explosives are shock sensitive to a degree. A rifle shot on Nobel’s original dynamite composition might very well set it off. Some of the newer, more modern formulations that are less sensitive to shock (made to be safer to handle) might go off with a rifle shot under just the right circumstances. It simply wouldn’t be a reliable way of detonating it.

Now, pure liquid nitroglycerine can be set off by letting just a drop of it to fall 10 or more feet.
The dramatic shooting of the dynamite in the movie might work, but I wouldn’t count on it.

As for going into mines: I took 14 Colorado School of Mines students into what was the deepest mine in the world back in 2004. We went down to 11,400 ft below the surface in one of the Western Deeps mines just west of Johannesburg, South Africa. Since we had to go more than 2 miles down, the cage (lift, elevator) moved at 30-35 mph!

Anyone want to guess the temperature down at 11,400 ft?


I would go 12,000 ft below the surface in a gold mine in South Africa before I would go 700 ft into a coal mine in China!
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 9:47 pm

"I would go 12,000 ft below the surface in a gold mine in South Africa before I would go 700 ft into a coal mine in China!"
Ron is the MAN! Thank you for giving the definitive answer. You get a win just for that. king

And, how cool is going to the deepest gold mine in the world! And, you blow things up. 
Sounds like your mine was fun! I'm gonna guess about 50F as the temp? Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 19th 2015, 11:04 pm

The 1949-1957 black and white television series, The Lone Ranger, stars Clayton Moore. (Except for between 1952-1954 when the role was played by John Hart due to a contract dispute.) If you have seen this series in color, it has been colorized except for the last year(?) when the producer shot it in color despite the fact that ABC broadcast only in black and white.
 
Do not speak of the recent film version. It is an atrocity.
 
The Lone Ranger is the only survivor of an ambushed posse of Texas Rangers. He dons a mask for reasons that never really made much sense to me. But, he is really ticked off at bad guys and rides the range looking to right wrongs in an often lawless west with his side-kick Tonto played by Jay Silverheels.
 
In the legend, The Lone Ranger randomly discovers a silver mine with which to fund his crime fighting. This is also the reason for the name of his horse, Silver, and the source of his famous silver bullets. He passes these out like business cards. You can actually buy silver bullets today.


 
These bullets are treated as if they are almost magical and The Lone Ranger never misses. So, silver seems to actually improve bullet performance.
 
 
Does this work? Is it Hollywood Voodoo or is it True Blue?



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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 20th 2015, 4:52 am

Silver is quite a bit lighter than lead and the mass of the silver needed for a stable, effective bullet would make the bullet long and easier to upset but not as bad as Barnes X bullets which I gave up on years ago for their poor accuracy. He should have found a gold mine and rode a Palomino like Roy Rogers. Gold has much more mass and would work better but not as well as lead.

AFAIC, it's a waste of silver.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 20th 2015, 4:58 am

"As for going into mines: I took 14 Colorado School of Mines students into what was the deepest mine in the world back in 2004. We went down to 11,400 ft below the surface in one of the Western Deeps mines just west of Johannesburg, South Africa. Since we had to go more than 2 miles down, the cage (lift, elevator) moved at 30-35 mph!

Anyone want to guess the temperature down at 11,400 ft?"


Ron, was it a gold mine or a diamond mine?

When I worked as a "miner" in caissons, it got nice and cool at 90-110 ft. down. However, there must be a depth where the mantle of the earth starts to heat up the lower edges of the crust but I will guess that it's still cold at 11,400 ft.  ... maybe 45 degrees F ... or not?

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 20th 2015, 8:06 am

Gold density is 19.3; silver 10.5 and lead 11.3. Gold would make a pretty heavy bullet. Silver, not so much. But silver at a few dollars an ounce is much more affordable than gold at over $1000 an ounce. That suggests that the Lone Ranger either had a silver mine or that he was too cheap to buy gold for his bullets.
I can see Tonto pulling the Lone Ranger to the side and saying: "Kimosabe, stop wasting our limited funds on silly, low density silver bullets. We'll go bankrupt soon and all the bad guys will get away."

The mine was a gold mine in the famous "gold reef" of South Africa.
When you are near the surface in an underground mine, the heat in from the land surface (sun) and the heat loss balance and the temperatures are around 55 F or so.
However, when you go deep, decay of natural radioactive material generates heat. The walls at the great depth of the Western Deeps are about 140 F. If you are right next to the ventilation system, it might be 85-90 F. Move away from the direct flow of the ventilation, and it heats up quickly. It might be well over 100 F and 100% humidity at the working face. Shifts of workers are limited there to 4 hours because of the heat.
The miner works at atmospheric pressure in mine openings. At great depth, the pressure behind the rocks on the wall and roof is millions of pounds per square inch. The biggest risk is rock burst. The rock just blows out into the mine workings. Last year, we couldn't go to 12,500 ft because a miner had just lost his legs in a rock burst. Even the metal mesh that is placed on the walls and roof may not stop a big rock burst.

I took the students to a coal and a platinum mine, as well, but they were not particularly deep.
Ron

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