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 Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 20th 2015, 9:16 am

You doubt The Lone Ranger!? 

But, this is Hollywood Voodoo. Bob is correct and first. He gets a win. king

However, the judges are impressed by Ron's science and the sheer coolness of his answer. 
He is awarded his second win! kingking

Fired silver bullets and lead bullets were aimed at ballistics jell. The Silver only penetrated half the depth of the Lead projectile. The weight of the Lead makes it superior which is why spent Uranium is sometimes used as projectiles- it is even denser than Lead. Silver is also less accurate.

This made me wonder about using Gold. In theory, it should work if spent Uranium does. But, I'm with Ron. There has to be a drop factor over distance. Plus, while Gold Round Balls would look sharp, I would waste a lot of time trying to dig them out of the berm! I'm too cheap to shoot away Gold!Wink


So, unless there are werewolves involved, avoid silver bullets! jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 22nd 2015, 9:39 pm

Dr. Who is to British popular culture what Star Trek is to the United States.
 
The first episodes ran from 1963-1989. The series was resurrected in 2005 and continues today. You may watch it on BBC America. Dr. Who is a time and space traveling, Time Lord. He and his companions halt threats to the earth that originate from far away galaxies, times, and dimensions. Twelve actors have played the role of the shape-shifting, genius Dr. Who.
 
Dr. Who is the last survivor of a planet called Galafray and flies around in his ship called the TARDIS fighting bad guys, er… aliens.
 
While Dr. Who prefers to use his Sonic Screw Driver and brain to defeat evil, his acquaintance, Dr. River Song (Alex Kingston) is happy to shoot first and ask questions later. She really does not like it when Dr. Who wears hats. In the episode, Impossible Astronaut, Dr. Who shows up in the American West wearing a cowboy hat. When he says, “Stetsons are cool,” River Song appears and shoots the hat right off his head.



River Song blows smoke from her gun after shooting Dr. Who's hat off.
 
Shooting hats off of people’s heads is seen often in film and television. The Dr. Who episode is just the most recent scene I know about.


Dr. Who (Matt Smith), River Song, and companions. 

Does this work? Is it Hollywood Voodoo or is it True Blue?

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 22nd 2015, 10:50 pm

In order to move the hat, the bullet has to transfer energy (mass of the bullet and velocity) to the hat.

So, if you look at the transfer of momentum and force and kinetic energy, from the equations, the bullet has to dissipate its energy into what it hits and lose velocity. However, bullets pass right through a hat and lose very little velocity. Therefore, very little energy is transferred to the mass of the hat. It does not move very much.

Hickok45, on YouTube, shows how the hat just sits there as the .45 Colt bullets pass through. Mythbusters did something similar and could slightly move the hat, but not knock it off the dummy. And you have to be a dummy to be the one who wear’s the test hat. crazy Very Happy
Ron

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   November 25th 2015, 11:07 am

Ron is mostly correct. So, he will get the win.kingkingking
He explains it better than I could. (Message me 
and I will send you a T-shirt as this is your third win!) 
Shot from the front passing over the head is mostly 
Hollywood Voodoo.

HOWEVER, Ron is actually also INCORRECT. Shooting a hat 
off IS INDEED POSSIBLE. So, this could also be TRUE BLUE!

Confused? It is all a question of the angle and/or proximity of the shot. 

Allow this Youtube video to demonstrate... 
It is gonna be a little difficult- and fun- to watch... Twisted Evil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVoxUgF7VbU

I hope this safety tip was useful and enjoyable.Exclamation

I will be putting further additions of Hollywood Voodoo/True Blue on hold till after the holiday. 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY!

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 7:14 am

It has been awhile, but I thought it was time to revive this game. 
RonC won the last round. He got his very Florida XXXL T-Shirt as his 
prize some time ago. 

We start from scratch!

The Game: 
Old movie situations with shooting themes will be offered. 

You must make the call... Is it Hollywood Voodoo BS? 
Or, the True Blue truth?

There is a (mostly) right and (mostly) wrong answer. 
Sometimes the right answer will become clear due to 
the responses.

The winner may not be just the 'correct' answer. 

A really clever answer may win the prize. So, the first 
answer has priority, but if you make the judges laugh? 
You just may win the quiz, anyway. When it stops being 
fun, the games will end.

Three 'wins' will earn you a T-Shirt.  

Please, stand by for the new question.


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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 7:56 am


I always like to go to the range and shoot in my birthday suit!



In the 2008 movie Wanted with Angelina Jolie, James McCavoy, and Morgan Freeman
a secret league of super assassins lurks. It is based on a limited comic written by Mark Millar.




These assassins have an unique ability that seems to stem from hyper-adrynel 
glands. When they get excited, their bodies, senses, and reactions become 
super acute. So, they are able to do things like shoot the wings off of flies
They heal themselves at incredible rates, as well.




They also display the ability to shoot over incredible distances, hit targets 
by curving their bullets in flight, and generally making our best day at the 
range look like an idiot child's attempt at playing with the grown ups.

A lot of the movie is absurd. My personal favorite is the idea of inscribing a bullet 
with words and art while having no impact on accuracy. 




That said, there is one thing that happens repeatedly that we can examine. 
Characters shoot at each other at nearly point blank range. They do not die 
because they target the actual bullet in flight and shoot it down.




Forgetting that this is improbable and beyond the skill level of mere mortals, it does raise an 
intriguing question. Is it possible to shoot down one bullet with another bullet as it is coming 
at you? Is this Voodoo or True Blue?

The below Wanted movie pic is of a multiple stage rifle bullet used in the movie special effects 
section. There were no Revenant round balls used in this movie!

I hope this has been enjoyable for you.


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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 8:55 am

If the bullets are on the exact same trajectory and hit directly straight on and:
1. the bullets are moving at exactly the same velocity
2. have exactly the same mass
3. made of the same material and
4. and collided along the same exact center of mass axis
Then all of the kinetic (motion) energy would be converted into heat energy and the rest would go into deforming the shapes of the bullets. You would get a smushing of the bullets, and heat generation, and then they both would drop to the floor.

As the textbooks say, "It is obvious that...." (Yeh, right!):




If all those characteristics don't hold, and the masses and velocities are different and the bullets don't hit straight on, you get into the theory of elastic collisions. If you knew exactly how glancing the collision was and the mass and shape and velocity of the bullets, then the new path the bullets would take could be calculated.


On mythbusters, the bullets fused together.


And in conclusion, it must be remembered that the mass of the a$$ equals the cosine of the angle of dangle.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 10:13 am

The answer is yes. I guess that's what Ron said .. scratch Dunno

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 10:32 am

Impressive, Ron. I suspect you are part Vulcan.

You do not mention time and distance? Shame on you for shoddy physics!

Answer forth coming...

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 12:32 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Impressive, Ron. I suspect you are part Vulcan.

You do not mention time and distance? Shame on you for shoddy physics!

Answer forth coming...
Since velocity is in the equations, and velocity is distance divided by time, time and distance are, indeed, accounted for. Laughing

And for your perusal, I will show you Ron's Mathematical Theorem: make up an equation that looks impressive and you can fool everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 12:41 pm

I hope no one wasted money to see that movie BTW. It looks dreadful.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 2:16 pm

@RonC wrote:
@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
Impressive, Ron. I suspect you are part Vulcan.

You do not mention time and distance? Shame on you for shoddy physics!

Answer forth coming...


And for your perusal, I will show you Ron's Mathematical Theorem: make up an equation that looks impressive and you can fool everyone.
Ron

I saw the bluff in the equations, you cheeky monkey! Ron's Mathematical Theorem indeed!

It does not take a genius to deduce bad logic. It just takes 
one willing to be made a fool of if they happen to be wrong. 
As I am often wrong and have no such fear?

You just played poker with a trivia game. 

I call shenanigans! 

Velocity does include speed. It does include distance. 
However, it does not include human point of origin of launch.

I will not reveal the judges' decision as they have not rendered it, yet. 

So, step up and place your bet.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 2:21 pm

@patocazador wrote:
I hope no one wasted money to see that movie BTW. It looks dreadful.

Bob, you are right... sort of...

It is a horrible movie when taken after the fact. 

However, a movie must entertain and hold your interest. 
While you are watching it.

If it fails? If it succeeds? 
It does not matter it's social relevance or truth. 

Example? We ALL look at Ms Jolie's image even though the 
story may not warrant it. We can not help but look. We are 
hard wired. Tell me you did not look! 

We enjoyed looking. This is the 'hook' the industry placed it's bets on...

Want to make your analytical brain go bye-bye? 
This film may do that IF you ignore the obvious 
logical traps to the story.


I would rate it a 3 out of 5. I have seen tragically worse.
I have seen a LOT worse and more earnest.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 6:24 pm

I did not look because, not only did I not see the film, I've never heard of it before your post. In fact, it may be a figment of your imagination contrived for this game only.

In fact, I can't ever remember seeing an Angelina Jolie film ... although I have seen plenty of her father's films.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 7:27 pm

@patocazador wrote:
I did not look because, not only did I not see the film, I've never heard of it before your post. In fact, it may be a figment of your imagination contrived for this game only.

In fact, I can't ever remember seeing an Angelina Jolie film ... although I have seen plenty of her father's films.

You are right. All of this is your imagination.

You did not look at that pic of Angelina? Wow.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 8:18 pm

The problem with this particular question is that the physics makes it possible... in theory. 
However, in execution? It has not been credibly duplicated.

The original story of 'dueling rifles' came from the Civil War, as I understand it. 

Two soldiers faced each other on the battle field and fired -only to have their bullets 
meet and stop each other in mid air.

The MythBusters first tried to mount two Civil War rifles in front of each other so that when fired, 
the bullets would collide in midair. However, they were unable to get the bullets to collide.

This was due to the differences in timing, arc, and imperfections/differences in the guns. These all 
made it impossible to capture a bullet-to-bullet collision under the most optimal of circumstances.

(If anyone is wondering about how they did it for the movies, well, that was special effects.)

They ended up hanging one bullet and firing at that. Then they were able to hit it and the two 
bullets fused together into one mass.

So, though incredibly unlikely, it is possible for two bullets to collide and fuse together in midair. 

In fact, I would guess that it has happened some where in all the world wars that mankind has 
fought. But, the combatants likely never knew about it when it happened.

But, the idea that two people could shoot at each other with the intent to stop one bullet with another 
bullet? At will? Preposterous.

This one is a Hollywood Voodoo.

No points awarded. 

And, further? Bob loses points for claiming not to have never looked at the naked picture 
of Angelina Jolie. She is naked and... well, Angelina Jolie... that story is just a 'dog that won't hunt.'

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 8:37 pm

"Picture" = photo. "Picture" also = movie.

By my answer, which do you think I was referring to?
Of course I have seen pictures (photos) of Angelia Jolie. How could I go through a checkout lane without seeing multiple tabloid covers of her and her mastectomies, husband, lovers, unlimited adopted kids, ad nauseum.

BTW, you are wrong about the bullets. If it is theoretically possible, then it is true. You just have not tested it enough times to have it happen.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 5th 2016, 8:38 pm

@patocazador wrote:
"Picture" = photo. "Picture" also = movie.

By my answer, which do you think I was referring to?
Of course I have seen pictures (photos) of Angelia Jolie. How could I go through a checkout lane without seeing multiple tabloid covers of her and her mastectomies, husband, lovers, unlimited adopted kids, ad nauseum.


lol!

And, I stand by the conclusion. If it can not be duplicated under the best of conditions, 
it is not possible for mortal man with present day firearms to do on command. Want to 
test this theory? Let me shoot you and you stop the bullet with your own to save you!   Evil or Very Mad

It is theoretically possible for man to go to Alpha Centauri. But, right now, we can't. 
So, saying that the average person cannot do it is the 'most true' statement.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 11th 2016, 9:25 pm

I asked a black laborer onetime if he wanted to take a ride in my airplane. His reply was....."Naw sur....I ain't a gwine no higher than corn pullin and no lower than tater diggin!"
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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 8:25 am

"Want to test this theory? Let me shoot you and you stop the bullet with your own to save you!"


Why would I try to stop your bullet? I'd just shoot you before you pulled the trigger.


But, according to your misguided reasoning, the "God particle" (Higgs boson) doesn't exist because it was theorized in the 1960s but took 50 years of trying before it was proven to be. Now that it has been proven, it still doesn't exist because it can't be produced on command.



BTW, it is not possible for a live human to go to Alpha Centauri for three reasons: 1) He would be dead before he got there and 2) He would be incinerated prior to reaching it since the Alpha Centauri A is a larger star than our sun and 3) Alpha Centauri is a cluster of 3 stars and Hal would veto any attempt to land.
Of course, you could solve the last 2 problems by going at night. crazy

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 8:50 am

@patocazador wrote:
"Want to test this theory? Let me shoot you and you stop the bullet with your own to save you!"

Why would I try to stop your bullet? I'd just shoot you before you pulled the trigger.

But, according to your misguided reasoning, the "God particle" (Higgs boson) doesn't exist because it was theorized in the 1960s but took 50 years of trying before it was proven to be. Now that it has been proven, it still doesn't exist because it can't be produced on command.

BTW, it is not possible for a live human to go to Alpha Centauri for three reasons: 1) He would be dead before he got there and 2) He would be incinerated prior to reaching it since the Alpha Centauri A is a larger star than our sun and 3) Alpha Centauri is a cluster of 3 stars and Hal would veto any attempt to land.
Of course, you could solve the last 2 problems by going at night. crazy

I give you credit for a rousing and entertaining defense! Fun!

Point 1: "I'd just shoot you before you pulled the trigger." Yes. I believe you would! Scoundrel! (But, not relevant to the question.)

Point 2: "Now that it has been proven, it still doesn't exist because it can't be produced on command." Maybe not produced on command, but the process can be done AND replicated or it would not be considered 'proven' by science. 

Myth busters, who are a lot more skilled at this sort of thing than I were not able to do it under the best of conditions with present day skills and equipment- even when removing the human element as much as possible. So, it remains a Schrödinger's cat. The possibility of success floats about unproven until you open the box and try it. It has not been observed to date. (Plus, I have never stopped a bullet with a theory.) 

Point 3: I believe it is possible for man to go to Alpha Centauri in theory. However, not in day to day application.
A. We would leave Hal behind. (He was always kinda creepy/stalkery anyway.)
B. Use Cryogenics to preserve life or, institute a 'life ship' with interstellar breeding for population. 
Send cloning and dna genetic materials on ice and whip up a new population of man from the soup 
once the ship arrives.
 
There are lots of solutions possible to get man there. (It does not mean I can/will do it!) 

C. Maybe we land on a moon or build a habitat from the asteroids. If one landing does not work, 
there are always options. (Road trips always require a little flexibility.)
D. I love the humor behind the 'go at night' comment!

Finally you ignored the key parts for this answer...

"impossible for mortal man with present day firearms to do" -Seems True with no proof otherwise

"saying that the average person cannot do it is the 'most true' statement" - Definitely True

And, since the rules of the game specifically cite that 'the most true' answer is the correct one? 
The judges maintain that their decision is the 'most true' one for all of us here. (While noting the 
theoretical possibility of success at some point in the future.)

Point being? No one should try this at home and expect to survive the attempt. Do not point 
guns at one another and expect to shoot down each other's bullets and survive. Why? Because this is 
Hollywood Voodoo.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 9:01 am

My assumption was that the event could be staged - the aiming could be such that the bullets make contact. Mythbusters might have had difficulty, but I am betting that one could be successful in a high tech lab. Accelerators do it all the time and shoot subatomic particles at elements or molecules and make a direct hit.
With all the joking about the equations I showed, they are the equations of momentum and deflection in an elastic collision. The equations can predict the results of a collision based on the mass and velocity of each particle.
Ron

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 9:36 am

My understanding of the particle splitting and such is that they don't aim one particle 
and shoot it like at a target. Don't they place one particle and then saturate the chamber 
with a 'shower' of particles they want to see impact it? IDK

I agree that the idea of bullet to bullet impact is theoretically possible. The math does support it. 
(I am taking a lot of that on 'faith' as the math goes higher than my ability to confidently execute.) 
The theory makes it possible. Not likely. Just possible.

The theory is accepted for it's potential. Theory has never stopped a bullet. 
Correct application of theory has. So far, we do not have that for hand held weapons. 
Particle accelerators are not pocket sized.

Plus, the person would need to be able to time their shot inhumanly precisely to the timing of 
the aggressor's shot to make even the best calculations work and that is beyond us. 

Tiny imperfections in rifling, cartridge construction, micro measurement of weights, and bullet surface can screw 
the pooch. I believe this might account for the Mythbuster's failure. I know my digital powder measure is only so accurate.

The final argument is a legal one. If this were rated 'True Blue' and some idiot tried it, I would get my 
ass sued because under perfect conditions it is exceedingly unlikely to work.

But, I am glad this is engaging our thinking about truth and Hollywood and firearms. It seems fun to me.
However, let me know? If this is not fun for everyone there is no point in doing it.

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 11:19 am

There is a simple, irrefutable logic, here.
If a movie good guy can
a. shoot 26 rounds out of a revolver without reloading, or
b. 27 shots from a 1911 with a 8 round mag installed, and
c. shoot 2 pistols, one in each hand, and
d. do this while somersaulting, and
e. hit all 10 bad guys
f. while the bad guys fire automatic weapons and miss the good guy,
then that same good guy can shoot another bullet out of the air. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Hollywood Voodoo or True Blue?   May 12th 2016, 11:37 am

While all of this provokes thought (always a good thing), it also involves Physics. I don't trust Physics because more advanced Physics seems always to involve Philosophy. And the "tree falling in the forest" guys are on the verge of being whackos in my book.

The latest I heard was the theory that states, as more events are shown to follow definite laws of Physics and Mathematics, the more likely it is that we live in an artificial environment and the universe is analogous to a hologram created artificially by more intelligent beings.
The physicists theorize that if the universe were real, the laws wouldn't work as well and everything would be more chaotic. The TV astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson is a proponent of this theory.

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