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 CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help

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Remi



Number of posts : 105
Age : 46
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Registration date : 2014-02-18

PostSubject: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:08 pm

Hey fellas

I need a lil help with my Accura MR.  Got the gun and everything except the scope from Carlos, I'll prolly contact him for advice too if he doesn't see this and chime in.  I've had this for about 1.5yrs now and honestly never been able to get good, consistent accuracy with this rifle.  It has a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10x44 scope on a DNZ mount.  It's  a tack driver at 50 but opens up at 100.  I'm using BH209 and tried anywhere from 90-110gr by volume; lately been staying with 110.  I've tried Barnes TEZ with blue sabots and Harvester smooth black; also been shooting Harvester PT260 with the black smooth and CR sabots.  The pictures were from my last groups from today after about a dozen shots and the bullet/sabot combo's are written on the targets.  These are the best I can get at 100 yds.  The CR sabots seem to do better but they go down so easy that it feels like something is wrong.  I've scrubbed the bore with JB's in past and I'm shooting of a high quality rest.  I'm starting to think that either I have a bad rifle, scope, or scope mount - it's all over the place and the groups, as you can see, aren't indicative of what this rifle should be producing - I've seen much better results posted here and eleswhere... so what am I missing?

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FrontierGander
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:16 pm

The last rifle I had that shot that inconsistent had a plugged up breech plug. Have you cleaned the flash channel with the 1/8" drill bit?
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:21 pm

I did before I fired the first shot but I had
not cleaned it during the session and fired 12 shots in total.
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:41 pm

Honestly, the group with the CR sabots would've been fantastic if it weren't for shot #3 (which is why I shot the 4th in that grouping); 1 & 2 were good, 3 took off and 4 went right back so did I pull #3??? Maybe, but they all "felt" good as far as keeping the cross hair on center and squeezing that trigger - sometimes you know when you messed up - I didn't feel that with these but of course it's a possibility...
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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:43 pm

Have you got another scope you can try? Make sure you check the base screws on the scope mount too.

Although it shouldn't be accurate at 50 yds if that was the problem.

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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:47 pm

Good point - I re-torqued the rings with a torque driver before shooting but not the mount to to the receiver. I'll definately do that. I have 2 of these scopes so I could try my other one - hate to remove it from the slug gun tho but it might be worth trying. Thanks for the tips!
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Clyde



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 6:56 pm

Remi , this is going to sound strange but how about seating pressure you mentioned the cr went down very easy how about the sb ?  You can have a sabot seat so tight that you can't feel it hit the powder hence inconsistent pressure however I have to say when I do that its almost always a vertical dispersion,  I'd almost say you anticipated the recoil on shot number three and pushed it left otherwise you'd have 4 shots within 1.125 which is dam good shooting by any standard.
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 7:03 pm

The SB's go down smooth and easy too but noticeably different than the CR's - I definately wouldn't call the SB's tight (or loose) though so I dunno... I agree that #3 is suspicious especially where #4 went right back to 1 & 2. I was frustrated at the end of all this so maybe my haste got the best of me and I outta get more loads and ammo/sabots and try again, that CR group was the last one - I ran out of loads so had to stop.
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Clyde



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 7:07 pm

One more question I know at 32 degrees it might sound strange but how much time between shot 2-3 I doubt barrel heat would throw the shot but you'd might be surprised at the amount of mirage you can get from the temp difference of that barrel and the surrounding air.  Do you have any of the red crush ribs ?  They run about >002 tighter than the black cr .
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 7:19 pm

I waited about 4-5 mins between (made sure barrel felt cold) I should try the red CR's in fact I just read about them in the link regarding bullet testing on another thread. Surprised the SB's were so erratic - they are often recommended here but every rifle is different and that's why you've gotta test, test, and.... Test
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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 7:32 pm

You always need a tight fit. You have to take that into account when you read someone else's range report. The good thing about BH is it will continue to load the same as a clean bore. So, go for a tight fit with a clean bore and keep shooting with no swabbing.

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cvilorio



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 7:57 pm

Remi. I have two questions for you.  First how many times have you used the JB bore cleaner to on the gun. Second, like Muley said, re-check the screws on the base. Once i get your answer, we will take it from there. I have a feeling I know what it is.
Carlos
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 8:09 pm

Hi Carlos

I used it once and swabbed maybe about 30 strokes and cleaned with Hoppes 9; the groups got better after I did this - they used to be worse. As mentioned it's a tack driver now at 50 whereas before JB's I was getting maybe 1 1/2 to 2" groups at 50 - I don't shoot at 100 much b/c ideal hunting distance for me is <50
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 15th 2016, 8:59 pm

Remove the cap on the wrist of the stock and check to make sure the stock bolt is tight as well. I had the LDR Vortec traditions years ago and all of the sudden, accuracy went to poop. Found the stock was loose and once I tightened it, accuracy was outstanding once more.

Its not unusual to find the stock bolts loose or only semi tight.
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Fishunt

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 16th 2016, 6:37 pm

I zeroed a mountain rifle this year and got it to group "ok" but not as good as two others that I had previously zeroed. I was a little disgusted and then thought about something. The 209 primer. I was using CCI209M primers and they worked fine with the other two rifles. I had some Winchester 209 primers in the blue box with me so I tried them. That was the answer and the groups tighten right up.

With that said, my groups with the CCIs were not as erratic as you are experiencing. Yours looks more like something is loose somewhere.

Good luck.
Glenn
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 17th 2016, 1:50 pm

Hi Carlos
What should the torque on the scope mount to the recvdr be? Again, it's the DNZ for 30mm scope tube. How about the torque for the barrel/stock?
Thanks
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cvilorio



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 17th 2016, 2:42 pm

@Remi wrote:
Hi Carlos
What should the torque on the scope mount to the recvdr  be?  Again, it's the DNZ for 30mm scope tube.  How about the torque for the barrel/stock?
Thanks
I will send you a PM tonight.
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archerrj



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 17th 2016, 6:22 pm

For what it's worth I had an identical grouping issue with my MR this past year & I also tried countless sabot, bullets & BH209 powder charges without any improvements. So if you don't find anything loose with the scope base mounting screws, then I suggest that you contact CVA and request an RMA to send it back for inspection, which is what I ended up doing. And in my case CVA ended up replacing my MR due to a bad barrel. Thankfully the replacement MR now shoots very acceptable groups using 110gr of BH209 & the Barnes 290gr with the blue sabot. Good luck!
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cyclone



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 25th 2016, 4:38 am

What rest are you using at the range.  I've busted a set of rings and a scope using a Lead Sled while experiencing inconsistent groups like that..  It only serves as a holder for cleaning my guns now...
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 25th 2016, 5:48 am

This is the rest setup I'm using at the range.  I have been shooting with the sling on there; next time out it will be off - maybe it's getting in the way...
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cyclone



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   January 25th 2016, 6:00 am

Scratch the lead sled theory then..Your setup is  is the same setup I use now.
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Remi



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   February 2nd 2016, 11:11 am

Thanks for all the input fellas - tried another session.  There were really no changes other than checking the scope mount and it wasn't loose.  I carefully measured my powder (BH209 77gr on an RCBS scale) and I cleaned out the flash channel between groups - no swabbing at all.  I also took the sling off just to make sure it wasn't in the way.  I tried Barnes TEZ with blue sabots, Monoflex 452 with black sabots, Monoflex 458 with orange, and Harvester PT260 with red CR sabots and the black SB sabots.  The 458's/orange and PT260 with the red CR's were done near the end and were very tight, I didn't post pics of those because they were worse than the one's I am posting and IMO too tight.  These groups are better and it is certainly "Minute of Deer" accurate.  I'm out of primers (Fiocchi) so once I can track some down - I'll shoot more...

Picture sequence
The first 2 shots at 50yds to be sure I was on paper; Barnes TEZ with blue sabots:

3 shots at 100yds Barnes TEZ/blue sabots (the low shot was #2):

3 shots at 100yds Monoflex 452/black smooth sabots:

3 shots at 100yds PT260/black smooth sabots:
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Clyde



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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   February 2nd 2016, 5:21 pm

Remi,  I shot my new Wolf for the first time Sunday I started off with some Speer 260 gr 451 in smooth and they were about what you got  at 50 but when I moved out to 100 oh boy did they open up.  So I went to the Hornady 250 gr SST in the Harvester smooth and got an 1.5 inch group and it stayed pretty consistent, but what I found was  where I placed my off hand on the forend would move the group slightly left or right, it looked about like your bottom group.  So I tried the 250 gr  Monoflex in the same sabot  the first two shots were in a tight 1/2 inch group at about 1 inch high.  So I reloaded and fired 3 shots making sure  to exert the same pressure on the foreend I shot a 3 shot group of less than or equal to 1/2 inch with 4 of the 5 shots in 1 5/8 now I don't know if the longer monoflex bullet did it or the increased hold pressure I think the latter because the 3 shot group was slightly below the bull. What are you doing with your off hand ?  Are you consistent on whats going on with the front stock.
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Remi



Number of posts : 105
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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   February 3rd 2016, 10:50 am

Thank you for the post Clyde; you've got me thinking about this and I'd say my grip on the forend mostly was loose, in fact I recall the rifle jumping out of my left hand (forend) a few times but a few times the rest actually moved assumingly from me holding tight so I'd say I'm very inconsistent.  I suppose I'll take one for the team here and everyone can have a laugh on me but I'm here to learn so...  What is the proper shooting technique from a bench?  I've seen guys hold the forend (which is what I do) and I've also seen them fold their non-trigger hand under and relax with a somewhat light grip on the trigger hand and just let the rifle do it's thing (again, this is on a rest of course) such that they aren't fighting it.  I would think you'd want that hand on the forend to help keep it under control?  I know that when shooting a slug shotgun you want that hand on the forend tight and pull it in hard to the shoulder... maybe it's been my technique all this time?
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OldMtnMan

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PostSubject: Re: CVA Acura MR - Need a lil help   February 3rd 2016, 11:37 am

Hand off the forend will be the most consistent and accurate.

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