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 GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"

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PostSubject: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   January 29th 2016, 11:18 am

SUBJECT: GRRW CA is up and is now running. "Building One Gun At A Time".
I have been asked “how’s the project going with getting the former employees of Green River Rifle Works back together”. Not sure if this was a slam (tongue in cheek thing) or they were really wanting to know what was stated. This idea started between Ron Paull and myself in October 2015, most thought it would be fun to see the group back together building guns. But most agreed it would never happen because of the ages of the old employees now 40 years later. That attitude of “it can be done” has always pissed me off, negative remarks seem to be in their makeup. That’s sad to never have a positive moment, good luck with that mode.

I built a website to gather folks with fond memories of the old firm of GRRW. I found several guys, both collectors, one with a website the other producing a newsletter. I contacted them and they agreed with my idea, they have tried to sell “T” shirts with the logo not having much luck. I told them when you contact one of these firms for supplying such items you need to have a game plan.

1) Look for the best quality items at fair prices. You do not want to be the middleman.
2) The supplier takes the order: collects the funds, handles the shipping.
3) They are the contact person if there’s a problem.

Sounds pretty straight forward until you start contacting these garment folks, they want you to do everything mentioned and have a large inventory like done with the original shirts. After talking to a half dozen companies I found an old friend just retired that had just opened a new company, she liked my thoughts for GRRW hats, shirts and jackets. THE TREADED DRAGON, located in Parker CO. http://www.threadeddragon.com

With starting with this idea one month earlier then announced on this site in November 01, 2015 we have moved forward with an idea that wouldn’t work.

Next I built a website associated with the old firm of “GRRW”, the “GRRW Collector” websites and the “Green River Gazette” newsletter. New site called “GRRW Collectors Association” is found at http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/index.htm

At the same time we started talking about building guns with the man Doc White, owner of the old firm of GRRW. He liked the idea of getting former employees back together again along with possibly using them as custom gunsmith build the old firm’s guns. That’s all I needed to hear and having his approval another website was started with Doc overseeing what was done. Now seen at http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/index.htm

I knew of several old friends that had wanted GRRW guns for years, we contacted them if still interested. The process was now moving with the motto “Building One Gun At A Time”. Three (3) guns were ordered with Doc White, Carl Walker and Ron Paull being put to work.

Mike Nesbitt was contacted, (having columns in several muzzle-loading magazines) to see if he was interested in this idea. He got really excited as he was a fan of GRRW for years. He will write an article to be published in the Spring/Summer 2016 issue of the “Muzzleloader” magazine.

With three models being built at this time, a Jim Bridger Hawken, a Leman Trade rifle and a Poor Boy with orders for several more now on a “Customer Waiting List”.

To read how the Process at  works see a brief resume below or go to the  website.
 



 is just a source for those desiring an excellent copy of the original guns of “GRRW”. Your first contact will by email with our contact person who can answer any questions you may have. "Building One Gun At A Time" is our motto & the way the process is done. When ordering a firearm your name is placed on a “Waiting List”. When the next available gunsmith has finished his last build you will be contacted to start the process. NO backorders - NO deposits. 

PROCESS When your name has been placed on the “Waiting List” you have started the process. When there's an available gunsmith you will be contacted that your build is next in line.

1) If still interested, you will be provided with the gunsmith's email or his phone number in some cases to start talking about your wants and desires.
2) The smith will go over the parts needed for your custom firearm build (build sheet).
3) The gunsmith will provide you with the supplier of choice (determined by your upgrades). A list of parts will be discussed along with any part changes from the normal rifle/pistol parts kits.
4) You the customer orders the required parts kit, pays for the kit at the supplier’s store by phone or on their website & has the kit shipped to your personal  gunsmith's location provided by the smith.
5) You & your gunsmith will keep in contact during the building process for any changes or upgrades desired.
6) Once the firearm is completed the  gunsmith will contact you letting you know your rifle/pistol is ready for delivery. You will pay the gunsmith for his labor & the cost of shipping to your address. 

NO middleman, NO additional charges at the front or the end of your build, just parts, labor & shipping (NO hidden costs or add-ons). A straight forward process for you working with a custom gunsmith & getting what you have dreamed of since the closing of the GRRW. 

Thank you for time folks. Have a Good Day.


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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   March 27th 2016, 11:07 am

I'm jealous.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   March 27th 2016, 3:04 pm

Hi Buck! 

Good to hear from you! I was wondering where you went. 

I can not wait to see your new baby. And, find out how much it cost. 
And, if I should act... and if so, how long I would need to wait! (I know...
it is somewhat vague... just an idea.) Fun stuff! Cool

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   March 27th 2016, 8:39 pm

I just had a chance to shoot with Phil Meek and bought my first GRRW. I have wanted one for sometime and found one on Track. I like the Colonel am curious about what the wait time would be to have one built. I will also be waiting to see the pictures of the new gun Thanks Al

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 7:45 am

 Here's A Really Rare Find. Green River Rifle Works


Can you jump over to that thread? On this forum? 


I need to know your thoughts and whether you think 
Doc will allow a GRRW stamp if the GRRW CA guys 
assemble it.


I have NOT been staying out of trouble...
Bought that kit...

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 9:56 am

Give him a link knucklehead. You know old farts can't find anything.

https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t9977-here-s-a-really-rare-find-green-river-rifle-works

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 11:04 am

Muley wrote:
Give him a link knucklehead. You know old farts can't find anything.

https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t9977-here-s-a-really-rare-find-green-river-rifle-works

Thanks, dork! Wink

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 11:29 am

I found the link you two turds. Isn't it nice to see the love these two have for each other....  Laughing lol!

Isn't that the kit that Tom Watson is trying to sell? I got an email that he had an old GRRW Hawken kit for sale a few months ago. Untouched, just wanted to do something else, or interests changed?
Sorry to be so uninvolved with you guys at this time, been busy with the GRRW.CA project. Keeping smith's working, looking for parts when normal sources are out. Talking to interested parties with questions and more questions on guns. Now building a FAQ page to help answer the most common concerns with building the models carried by the old firm. If you think of a question let me know, may be one that I have forgotten to put on new page. Thanks for your time.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 11:35 am

I believe thats the same one. I got that link in the Gazette email.
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 11:49 am

FrontierGander wrote:
I believe thats the same one. I got that link in the Gazette email.


Good Jon that's what I had figured, then had second thoughts there may be another one floating around?

Have you seen the first GRRW.CA Trapper Pistol that Ron Paull built, its a beauty with extra features like engraving and checkering.



Two original GRRW barrels were found on an auction site, purchased both - one had been cut 22 inches while the other was 36 inches. The 22 inch barrel is now a GRRW.CA "Trapper Pistol" while the longer barrel will become a "J&S Hawken" shortly. Both built by Ron Paull (former employee of old firm of GRRW). This is a set marked [1 of 2] and [2 of 2].





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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 11:50 am

drop dead gorgeous!
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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 2nd 2016, 12:11 pm

That is gorgeous. I love the engraving!

Tom Watson is the seller. So, you seem to have the right end of the stick. 
He told me that he wanted to work only on long rifles so he was letting 
this one go.

If you scroll to the last post on the thread at the link Muley posted, you will see pics of 
the whole original kit.

Two questions: 

One, did I do right in buying it? You are in a position to know.

Two, do you think Doc would approve stamping this rifle with an original 
GRRW stamp if built by an original GRRW gunsmith?

Any other thoughts about this specific Kit/style of Hawken you can offer? 

I am on the GRRWCA waiting list. This will take care of the parts 
needed, I assume.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 3rd 2016, 12:20 pm

KC,

I can get that stamping done for you, send me a PM so I can make a note on the "GRRW.CA Customer Waiting List" as a reminder to me what we have talked about. I get several special requests weekly asking for different things and I don't want to screw this up.

If your who I think you are (I know you told me once - that was before I found I forget things and didn't write it down like now being done). This memory crap sucks ... If I'm correct your coming up for me to contact you once the current guns on the smith's benches have been completed.

These former employees of GRRW have become very picky with their skills over the years wanting everything to look just right (good for the customer) but can drive me nuts at times with scheduling, just kidding. We want these guns to be "right on the money" and be as close as possible to the original GRRW firearms.

Once Nesbitt's article comes out it will be a full time job for me to keep everything straight and loading work, reason for working on the FAQ page now. For an "idea that wouldn't worked" it has gotten some interest which really surprised Doc and a few of the smiths. They thought they had been shoved under the carpet years ago. What gets me is for the number of guns they built back in the day - 5,500 plus - that only a few have appeared today (there is a large number of these guns sitting in gun cabinets, closets or hanging on the wall that owners don't have a clue of their value). This was the original intent in starting to talk about them in our search as to where they went?


I think what you paid Tom for this gun and what it is, is probably close to true retail value, he has never given anything away that I have seen. Mr. Watson has been a good source for information and fair with his dealings. So even as said RETAIL VALUE will just increase over the next few years where you'll be in good shape KC with your purchase.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 3rd 2016, 2:24 pm

Buck, 

This is quite comforting as I made the 'leap of faith' and bought the Money Order 
before your response! Boy! Am I relieved! Yes. Tom 'squeezed the orange' 
for all it was worth.

I will respond to your questions shortly. I am a little distracted myself. '6th' on the waiting list 
comes to memory. The type of rifle will now conform to the kit. I would love to know what that is...

I am SO pleased at the original GRRW stamp possibility! Wheeee! I played poker with this one. 

This means we may be able to make this a special tribute rifle. What does that mean? Engravings? 
Joint publishing potential? Who knows? I really would like to celebrate the roots of this if we can.

Maybe this can be a one off...  GRRW AND GRRW CA stamp? IDK. 

WAY fun though! A simple BP lover has stumbled onto a special rifle thanks to listening 
to his friends! 

There is a story there...

(Even though that means Muley may get some credit, too... Well, you can't win them all! jocolorjocolorjocolor

THIS IS EXCITING! cheers


PS. I sent you an e-mail to help remind you. I did not PM you.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 8:59 am

Just so everyone knows...

I have had a reply via e-mail to this. 
It was all good news, but some things need 
to be confirmed/thought through. So, I won't 
comment on that. 

But, yes! Still exciting!

I still do not even know the exact Hawken type 
in the kit. Laughing  It is a .58 calibre.

Talk about a leap of faith based on the GRRW brand, 
GRRWCA, Buck, Muley and what I have read from here 
and other places...

This is not at all like me... 
Keep me away from Vegas. 
I seem to have contracted a gambling bug. 
Thank God I have been winning!

This should be a lot of fun. This is going to be 
a special rifle.

Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 9:14 am

Conner........What real Hawken was used as a model for the guns you sell?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 9:35 am

Muley wrote:
Conner........What real Hawken was used as a model for the guns you sell?

There are several pictured on the link he gave above... Let me look.
(Muley, this may not answer your question now that I re-read your post.)

The J&S Hawken (a full stock Hawken... Not mine... I don't have the wood in the kit for it, I think)




The Hawken Half-Stock (I think this is the kit I have, but not sure. Guessing from the pics as I do not have it in my hands, yet.)




The Jim Bridger Hawken (Also a half stock...)

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 11:17 am

I'm looking for a specific gun.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 12:48 pm

Muley wrote:
Conner........What real Hawken was used as a model for the guns you sell?


In the early '70s in the shop at GRRW they had on loan 'Kit Carson's', 'Jim Bridger''s and one of 'Tobin's' rifles as well as several others from different collectors that Doc knew. Pictures, measurements, and full size prints (schematics) were made.

The prints that Track of the Wolf sells on these rifles are from GRRW, sold after closing the firm.

They had permission to take apart the Bridger rifle which surprised the smiths. At the breech end of this rifle it was missing several lands in the rifling, they thought done when built (probably the reamer slipped).

Carl Walker always told me "those old boys couldn't afford to throw away a mistake, they just fixed it and it went out the door" just like the Bridger rifle.

All these guns are now in the Jim Gordon Collection along with a dozen other famous Hawkens.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 4th 2016, 3:02 pm

Very cool. Thanks.

Wish I could afford one.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:11 am

Muley wrote:
Very cool. Thanks.

Wish I could afford one.


Each model produced at GRRW had several originals firearms to copy, Doc or one of his smith's always knew someone with what was needed in personal collections. It didn't matter whether it was a half-stock or full-stock Hawken, a Leman or a Trapper Pistol, one would be found, prints made with all the measurements recorded and pictures taken.

Colorado mountain-man Mariano Medina's Hawken was on loan to the Loveland Library, stolen and recovered, then sent to the Colorado Historical Society for safe keeping (stolen from there several times and finally sold to the Gordon Collection. I got to handled it when in Loveland (Medina home) and Ed Trump (GRRW smith) found it when it was taken from the Historical Society location. In the 60's and 70's you could find Hawken and leman rifles for sale at gun shows or advertised in Shotgun News, some had been owned by some famous folks.They were expensive but under $10K today we would have to sell our homes to afford one at the $100K price range.

For an example of who carried a few of these guns see: http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/those.that.carried.htm  and look at the price of a Leman Squirrel rifle in 1943 at: http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/page.lemans/leman.squirrel.rifle.htm 

For parts in one case "Blue Jacket" Sanders had castings made of an original Leman buttplate and triggerguard used on GRRW Lemans. I'm looking for that set of "Blues" Leman molds with his markers mark now, they disappeared after the firm closed, then castings were available for a period then gone again.

We have spent countless hours researching these guns on sale sheets & catalogs of Bannerman & Son as well as Collector Societies or a half dozen of these rifles offered from H.E. Leman. The more research done on their details the closer one gets to building a good reproduction of any of this gun.


Look at the detail on this Leman Indian Trade rifle found in Larry Ness' Collection : http://grrw.ca.tripod.com/page.schematic.htm  as time allows I can provide similar references.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:28 am

How accurate do you think the Don Stith kits are?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 7:52 am

I have seen Don's ads and studied the pictures but have never handled any of his wares. One of the GRRW.CA smith's said they had assembled a Hawken kit of Don's and had to really work on the trigger guard shape was all that was said? As long as Don has been offering his kits I would thing he has a good product, I haven't seen anything negative about the kits offered. I will probably contact him too for parts available as time goes on, some items are getting hard to find or limited supplies for building quality firearms?

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 8:14 am

I had heard he had a few real Hawkens to copy for his kits, but i'm not sure how true that is.

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PostSubject: Re: GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"   May 5th 2016, 8:35 am

Neat information. Thanks for the links.

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GRRW IS BACK, NOW CALLED - "GRRW CA" - "Building One Gun At A Time"
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