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 New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock

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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 9:10 am

I purchased a very nice Hatfield (1988) longrifle from one of our Frontier Muzzleloading community members a few months ago. It came with a perfectly fine percussion lock.

Being the cynic I am, I don't think these modern contraptions like percussion locks will ever catch on Evil or Very Mad , so I decided to revert back to the dependable flint lock. Laughing

I bought an L&R flint lock that is made for the Hatfield rifle. In fact, the Hatfield rifles were made to use their percussion and flint locks interchangeably. In addition, I bought a flash (touch) hole liner from Track of the Wolf. The flint lock fits nicely, but the liner sticks out (sits proud) of the rifle barrel. Then, the frizzen hits the liner and won't close.

I picked up some tips on another site about fixing the problem. I placed the liner in a 5/16 nut and put the nut in a vise. That way, there was little stress put on the liner. I filed the top of the liner, installed it in the rifle barrel along with the flint lock, and tested. I had to repeat that procedure 5 times until the liner was flush with the rifle barrel and the frizzen would close. Success! Now I have a percussion and flint lock Hatfield.

Ron
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patocazador

patocazador

Number of posts : 5852
Age : 76
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 9:32 am

If the liner had a screw slot, it doesn't anymore. Laughing 
The White Lightning liners don't have one so it doesn't matter.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1774
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 10:00 am

sweet! Cool

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 11:16 am

I left enough slot for a screwdriver.

The instructions said to use a 5/8 long by 7/8 wide flint. That is much to short. A 7/8 long flint works much better.
Ron

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RonC

Outside of a Dog, a Book is Man’s Best Friend. Inside of a Dog, It’s Too Dark to Read. Groucho Marx (or possibly someone earlier)
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Hilljack

Hilljack

Male Number of posts : 234
Age : 68
Location : Central Florida
Registration date : 2014-04-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 4:08 pm

The screw slot will erode from use and you will end up using an easy-out for removal...The slotted work, but I have found that the White Lighting are very consistent and last a good while...Besides vent are not normally removed for cleaning, this creates extra wear in the thread area and damage to the vent itself...Easier process to install the vent and flush it with the barrel with a mill file....Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions...

YMHS
Hilljack
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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 6:20 pm

Thanks, Hilljack!
Would you suggest leaving it as is for now and replacing it with a White Lightening later, or put a White Lightening in right away?
When filing flush with the barrel, how do you keep from scratching the barrel in the area of the liner?

Ron

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RonC

Outside of a Dog, a Book is Man’s Best Friend. Inside of a Dog, It’s Too Dark to Read. Groucho Marx (or possibly someone earlier)
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Standing Bear

Standing Bear

Male Number of posts : 233
Age : 71
Location : Texas Hill Country
Registration date : 2014-01-30

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 7:17 pm

10+ years ago I had to replace my flush mounted liner (it had opened up to >5/64" and poi at 100 yds had dropped 2-3"). I installed a slotted liner. I already have a White Lightning and may replace the slotted one next fall as this one is getting gas cut.

Hooray for improving the Hatfield. Working on a neglected .36 pop gun now but instead of converting it I'll probably sell and keep looking for a .32 flint.
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 598
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 8:45 pm

Shees you engineers are all alike. Take a perfectly good caplock and make some primitive caveman weapon out of it. Now it will misfire and the only thing it will be good for is another wall hanger.NoNo

cheers cheers  Hi Ron

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1774
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 21st 2016, 8:53 pm

@BigAl52 wrote:
Shees you engineers are all alike. Take a perfectly good caplock and make some primitive caveman weapon out of it. Now it will misfire and the only thing it will be good for is another wall hanger.NoNo

cheers cheers  Hi Ron

Hahahahaha! Laughing

What is funny to me is that I kept the Hatfield in flintlock! 
I wonder how similar the two are now... 
I wonder why you did not look for a Hatfield lock... 
Would that have made the liner issue easier?

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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Hilljack

Hilljack

Male Number of posts : 234
Age : 68
Location : Central Florida
Registration date : 2014-04-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 4:41 am

You will get some minor scratching, you can minimize this by using masking tape, but unfortunately you will have some. But on the other hand this area you get flash from the lock going off, so it kind of heals itself..... Thanks for reading my thoughts and opinions...

YMHS
Hilljack
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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:14 am

@BigAl52 wrote:
Shees you engineers are all alike. Take a perfectly good caplock and make some primitive caveman weapon out of it. Now it will misfire and the only thing it will be good for is another wall hanger.NoNo

cheers cheers  Hi Ron
And I call these guys "friends"? Very Happy

Colonel, I found that L&R made a flint lock that was for the Hatfield and the Cabela's and Pedersoli knockoffs of the Hatfield. Then, I learned from Track of the Wolf that they had a liner that fit the threaded barrel insert of the Hatfield. The flint lock was just about a perfect fit. The touch liner was ever so slightly proud of the barrel (I learned the "proud" expression from more learned muzzleloaders). It was really close. I probably could have left it alone and just put up with a little contact between the frizzen and the liner.

The previous owner before you, Colonel, may have already fit a flint lock to the rifle I now have. How do I know? The instructions said that I would have to take out a little wood to make room for some of the screws and other parts of the flint lock. However, that already was done and I did not have to make any mods to fit the flint lock.

Young boys like BigAl get all excited about novel and innovative changes, so I am not surprised at his fascination with the percussion mechanism. It's just a youthful fad that will never have commercial success. Evil or Very Mad Laughing

Admittedly, I have gone the direction of the percussion lock for concealed carry. Here is my carry firearm:
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock TCyQoN
Ron
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patocazador

patocazador

Number of posts : 5852
Age : 76
Location : central Florida
Registration date : 2012-08-22

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:27 am

During the percussion cap shortage, I read about several people who 'reverted' their cap locks to flintlocks so they wouldn't have to worry about shortages anymore. They could always find steel, sparking rocks (flint/chert), and, if necessary, make their own black powder.

_________________
Bob

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." -Thomas Jefferson
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Kentucky Colonel

Kentucky Colonel

Male Number of posts : 1774
Age : 110
Location : Luna
Registration date : 2015-10-28

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 9:02 am

(whistles... impressed...) 

I need to give all my rifles to engineers and to old-timers for a while. 
Seems they tell me more about them in a couple weeks than I could 
know in a couple years. 

Thanks Ron. Thanks Bob. (replace 'old-timer' with 'deeply experienced 
and respected BP enthusiasts!') Wink

It may be possible that the Hatfield when it was made was made to allow 
a switch without all the fuss that came later. I know there was quite a bit of 
variation in quality/build depending on when it was made. But, who knows? 
You may be right though as that is the simplest answer. If they did play with 
it that much, they took great care of it. I am glad you are having fun with it.

_________________
"One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy 
over the good fortune of others." 
― Robert Heinlein


Florida Muzzleloaders Association 
Central Florida Muzzleloaders 
Green River Rifle Works Collectors Association
NMLRA
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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 5:46 pm

Here is the Hatfield with the new lock installed as well as a fuzzy photo showing the touch hole liner.
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock 13EU2I
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock RRzOtv
Ron
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OSR



Male Number of posts : 96
Age : 69
Location : Free Part of NY, NY
Registration date : 2014-01-23

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 7:57 pm

RonC - Nice looking rifle.
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OSR



Male Number of posts : 96
Age : 69
Location : Free Part of NY, NY
Registration date : 2014-01-23

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:03 pm

@Kentucky Colonel wrote:
(whistles... impressed...) 

I need to give all my rifles to engineers and to old-timers for a while. 
Seems they tell me more about them in a couple weeks than I could 
know in a couple years. 

Thanks Ron. Thanks Bob. (replace 'old-timer' with 'deeply experienced 
and respected BP enthusiasts!') Wink

It may be possible that the Hatfield when it was made was made to allow 
a switch without all the fuss that came later.
I know there was quite a bit of 
variation in quality/build depending on when it was made. But, who knows? 
You may be right though as that is the simplest answer. If they did play with 
it that much, they took great care of it. I am glad you are having fun with it.
The switch from flint to percussion was a normal thing in the past.  Leave it to the penny pinchers in government to come up with a way to save a few bucks.  Especially the Brits, they converted a lot of their military flintlocks to percussion as a matter of course, to save a few bucks.  It was a lot cheaper to convert than to purchase a new rifle.
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 598
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:03 pm

All you old guys wanna engineer something to take you back to your childhood days and cannot accept modern day technology like a simple caplock. You would rather make your life more frustrating and play with a caveman weapon to entertain yourself in retirement. Al

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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OSR



Male Number of posts : 96
Age : 69
Location : Free Part of NY, NY
Registration date : 2014-01-23

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:09 pm

@BigAl52 wrote:
All you old guys wanna engineer something to take you back to your childhood days and cannot accept modern day technology like a simple caplock. You would rather make your life more frustrating and play with a caveman weapon to entertain yourself in retirement. Al
Don't you remember Davy Crockett, king of the wild frontier?  He carried a flintlock.

http://www.truewestmagazine.com/davy-crocketts-ol-betsy-found/
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:18 pm

Look good!

Ron, what is that other flint below?
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 598
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:24 pm

@OSR wrote:
@BigAl52 wrote:
All you old guys wanna engineer something to take you back to your childhood days and cannot accept modern day technology like a simple caplock. You would rather make your life more frustrating and play with a caveman weapon to entertain yourself in retirement. Al
Don't you remember Davy Crockett, king of the wild frontier?  He carried a flintlock.

http://www.truewestmagazine.com/davy-crocketts-ol-betsy-found/
I do remember Davey Crockett. But Jeremiah Johnson kicked butt with his caplock to. Al

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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RonC
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RonC

Male Number of posts : 1138
Age : 72
Location : Golden, CO
Registration date : 2013-09-09

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 8:37 pm

Jonathan,

That is a Neill Fields Late Lancaster(?) rifle with an original, late H.W. Mortimer lock from England around 1800-1820. Mortimer was one of the gunsmiths that could say they were "Amourer to the Queen."

It has a 7/8x36" .50 barrel and was completed February 14, 1990.
It sparks like mad, has a rollered frizzen, very smooth internals. The rifle weighs in at just 6.5 lbs. Barrel has 8 lands and grooves.

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock G2aj
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Gzwr
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Yokq
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock 6r4d
New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Vr674
Ron

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RonC

Outside of a Dog, a Book is Man’s Best Friend. Inside of a Dog, It’s Too Dark to Read. Groucho Marx (or possibly someone earlier)
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FrontierGander
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 9:12 pm

hooooweeeee! That is a freakin beautiful rifle! Especially that lock, they really out did themselves on that!
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BigAl52
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BigAl52

Male Number of posts : 598
Age : 66
Location : Evans, Colorado
Registration date : 2016-02-03

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 9:52 pm

Ron has all the cool stuff he just never shows his friends. He always keeps us guessing. Al

_________________
Have you ever just sat and thought man I've been through a lot of shit



John Bergmann 50 cal Lancaster
John Bergmann 54 cal Hawken
GRRW 50 cal
GRRW 58 cal
Lyman GPR 54 cal flintlock L&R lock davis deerslayer trigger
Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal
CVA Hawken 58 cal by Jonathan
Hawken Squirrel Rifle 40 cal by John Bergman
Pedersoli Penn Rifle 50 cal flintlock
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FrontierGander
Site
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FrontierGander

Male Number of posts : 16283
Age : 35
Location : Boncarbo,Colorado
Registration date : 2008-05-19

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 11:29 pm

That bastard! I'll have to take a baseball bat to his other knee now that you let the secret out!
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OSR



Male Number of posts : 96
Age : 69
Location : Free Part of NY, NY
Registration date : 2014-01-23

New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock Empty
PostSubject: Re: New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock   New-fangled percussion long rifle converted to old-fangled Flintlock EmptyApril 22nd 2016, 11:38 pm

@BigAl52 wrote:
I do remember Davey Crockett. But Jeremiah Johnson kicked butt with his caplock to. Al
  Shocked Laughing Laughing Laughing !


You should have watched Charlton Heston & Brian Keith in "The Mountain Men", with their flintlocks, a much better movie.
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